Gaslighting - WTF?

[Ilovesweatybollocks]

I feel a bit daft having to ask but it's getting mentioned in a lot of posts.
Please can someone explain what it means cos I honestly don't know

Has anyone ever met a female who gaslights?
On mumsnet I've only ever know women talk about their husbands gaslighting.

Yes I know a woman that does this. She twists events, what people have said, things that have happened. All in the aim of turning her DH against everyone he knows and that she is his only safety net.

@YobaOljazUwaque
Why do so many mothers seem to get the blame for this sort of thing and all other problems too by the looks of things on here?
I see abusive women who are mothers but I also know that they could well be under the control of some very fragile men who are (in the cases I am watching anyway) incapable of adult life and very scared of able women.
You have to look at the whole situation

My ex abuser did this relentlessly. I'm now years out of that relationship thank God but still to this day I have absolutely no confidence in my own decisions.

He would constantly tell me I was selfish for ridiculous things and make me doubt myself and my choices all the time. That is one of my biggest anxiety triggers now. Every time I have a conversation with someone I come away and analyse it in my head, did I ask them enough questions about themselves, did I talk about myself too much, did I come across as self centred?

It's horrible and makes me sad the effects are still visible even now, like he still has something over me.

My mil did it to me once. I invited them for Christmas in the autumn and got an emphatic “no” and list of reasons why not. Fine I proceeded on that basis. Then mid December got a “we are very disappointed” email that we were spending Christmas with my family and not with them. I felt like I was going mad. I put all in email now so she can’t pull that trick again. She’s not an elderly confused type btw but mid sixties good health but always been odd.

Can I ask - is lying the same as gaslighting?

The example I am thinking of - 5 years ago my then H bought a shop and hid it from me for almost a year. He would have hidden it forever but I found out.

However during the course of that year he told lots of lies. I found one of the legal documents in relation to the shop’s purchase (on the floor under a sofa in our front room ) in the summer of that year, and when I asked him if he had bought a shop, he said no, he had been going to, but had then backed out. Stupidly I believed him.

Fast forward a few months, and I realised that he was going to work (he used to make an item for the home that had to be sewn) in the direction of this shop that apparently wasn’t his. He hadn’t wanted me to see what he was putting in the boot however (it turned out it was the fabric etc to make this item), saying he was “fine as he was” . He dropped me off at the supermarket and then went off in
this direction. I knew there was no workshop of his in that direction, and started to worry.

When I later asked my then H where he had been going to make this item, there seemed to be two conflicting stories - the first story was that he was going to make it at the house of some people who sometimes did sewing for him. They lived nowhere near the direction he had been driving in however.

His later story was that he had made it in the back of his van. It was true that he had at times used this as a workshop, but as I was very suspicious at this point, I went and looked in the van, only to find that it was full of junk and there is no way anyone could have made anything there. That was a horrible moment.

So I knew something was up, but it wasn’t until I had seen a council tax request for the shop, and found it on the land registry in H’s name that I knew for sure.

When I finally told H (now ex) that I knew he owned this shop, he was just annoyed and sarcastic. He still however maintained that the purchase had been a mistake and that he would be selling it.

It then took ages for any of us, me or the dc, to actually see the shop. At some point I worried about what he was using it for seeing as he definitely wasn’t trading from it. I think he enjoyed the fact that I worried about this, and I remember him mocking me on one occasion.

I had to really insist that we saw it, and when I did see it, I realised that over the summer he had done loads of work on it renovating it. So he had said that he was doing other jobs, but in fact he had been there.

When he saw me realising how much work he had done, there was a look of pleasure / slight triumph on his face.

This is all really unpleasant I know (and since November of last year H is my exH), but would this kind of behaviour be gaslighting or simply lying? I often wonder.

I have other examples of similar things, but the one above is the easiest to explain.

Frances yes I've met females who gaslight.
The head and DHT (senco) of ds academy secondary were experts at it. It's where I learnt what it is. They'd literally argue Black was white and make me think I was stupid for thinking Black was black. They broke me.
They were experts.
HT has just been forced to leave. Jumped before she was pushed due to massive deterioration of school.

My dh does it to make him look better and avoid difficult situations or having to admit he’s agreed to stuff that he probably should have discussed first. It’s a pain.

Sparklesocks, thank you for your support clear analogy. Being of a different generation I didn't understand what the term meant. Now I do.
If anyone feels they're in this kind of relationship, END THE RELATIONSHIP NOW.
IF IT DOES NOT SERVE YOU, LET IT GO.
YOUR MENTAL HEALTH IS AS EQUALLY IMPORTANT AS PHYSICAL HEALTH.

@Holidayquestion1 In the whole I would say he was just lying and hiding it in that scenario. Gaslighting involves you thinking you've got it wrong. So if he'd suggested in the end that he'd always been open about buying the shop and that you'd known all along, that would have been gaslighting. Does that make sense?

My ExP was an absolute pro at this.

An example: We would have had a conversation, and at some point down the line I'd mention something mentioned within the discussion. He'd outright deny ever having discussed it, and tell me that "I must have said it to 'my other boyfriends' etc". (Just to clarify - always loyal, never been unfaithful, he was just insecure and adamant that I'd be cheating on him). This was deliberate and manipulative. I'd sit there doubting myself, trying to work out if I was going mad thinking we'd had the conversation.

He admitted it whilst drunk one day, that he'd actively do this to 'keep me on my toes' and to 'catch me out'. Even accepted that this was gas-lighting and was really abusive.

Gas-lighting is horrific. That was only a minor thing in the grand scheme of what he did, but it's something I'm so relieved to have removed from my life.

Some of these situations are truly awful. It must be frightening to be doubting yourself constantly

Thanks @StripyPaperBag - yes I agree overall as well. Lies rather than gaslighting.

As a few people have mentioned those that I have encountered who do this do it for their entertainment, enjoying the confusion and control and making someone dependent they often believe it shows they are more intelligent. Obviously not someone you'd Wang in your life!

*want

My abusive ex convinced me that i didn't remember what i said when i was drunk. He'd use this as an excuse to argue and put me on the "back foot". He used that expression a lot and said i was in denial because i was on the back foot and wanted to get out of what I'd done wrong. He'd told me that I'd said a previous bf was better in bed, so I'd have making up to do.

But if i tried to cut down on my drinking, he'd use that against me. I was embarrassing/not joining in etc.

We'd make plans and he'd change them, but say I'd agreed. He told me his Friend had got a job as a HCA in a hospital and was a supervisor. I said that was strange because of a lack of experience. He started an argument about it. Weeks later we bumped into this Friend and it turned out he was a cleaner in the hospital. My ex denied ever telling me any different.

He wanted to take up all of my emotional energy.

He destroyed my confidence to a point i came off a BA. There was physical abuse but the psychological abuse, including gas lighting, did the most damage.

I’ve been the victim of gaslighting twice. Both were by women.

First time was many years ago, she was a housemate, she would say she was going to do something to do with the house, then wouldn’t do it, then she would either deny convo ever happened or accept convo happened and it was me that was supposed to do the thing. Luckily I haven’t seen her in over 10 yrs but we do still have mutual friends and she’s still pulling this shit on them - everyone knows what she’s like but they remain friends with her 🤷‍♀️.

The second was a family member and it happened shortly after I had my first child. She took advantage of me being tired and forgetful and I really did think I was losing my mind, I was having to double check things. I first heard the term gaslighting around that time so read up on it and it fitted both of the situations, I remember feeling so relieved. I’m now non contact with family member, she went off in a sulk because she couldn’t manipulate and walk all over me anymore, every so often she tries to contact me and sweep it under the carpet but it’s not happening.

To be the recipient of gaslighting is awful and can be truly terrifying.

to anyone who’s been a victim.

My DH does stuff that I'm starting to think is gaslighting. But the things he says can be easily disproved so I also wonder if he just has a shit memory (he definitely does). These scenarios he invents always make him sound amazing and me a bit crap. But I have a better memory so can always "correct" him, but do find myself confused temporarily while I think through the bullshit.

I'm wondering if it is actually always deliberate? Or if in my DH's case is just an overwhelming desire to paint himself as an amazing guy, coupled with a crap memory. He actually seems to believe his own stories and it's surprised when corrected.

Mmmmm
I don’t know, both of my gaslighters were adamant they were in the right. Even when things were pointed out to them and I had concrete evidence to back me up neither would accept that they were wrong, they’d just tend to shrug it off and change subject.

It’s really difficult because most people wouldn’t dream of behaving in this way and yet someone who is supposed to love you does you don’t want to believe it’s deliberate.

I find it hard to trust people now and I have become quite insular - I open a lot more on here than what I do in real life.

Interesting. I think I might bring the subject of gaslighting up with DH next time he does this. Although from past experience of discussing such things he's likely to accuse ME of gaslighting. He typically brings up instances of my own behaviour if I challenge his.

Gaslighting is insidious. It's effective because it's usually done gradually and works on a par with 'boiling frog syndrome'- although a line manager has tried this approach with me and I recognized it instantly. Once you're aware of it, you can spot it a mile away, but that moment when the scales fall from your eyes can be particularly painful.

It's horrible, truly horrible. I don't think it's too much of an exaggeration to say that gaslighting - and stalking - are the psychological equivalents of rape (I've previously been a victim of the latter two. In fact, the physical assault was over far quicker than the psychological one, which for me at the time proved the worst of the two. You just simply can't see any way out of the situation, and the persistent sense of threat and living your life on high-alert 24/7 is unimaginable unless you're unfortunate enough to have experienced it. And it can't get much more invasive and abusive than making someone doubt their own sense of reality, to the point where they think it's they who are crazy.

Thanks for posting the question, OP, because the more this kind of thing is discussed and debated online, the more likely people are to recognize it if it happens to them

Although from past experience of discussing such things he's likely to accuse ME of gaslighting.

Thought I'd point out that this is what is commonly known as DARVO (deny, attack, reverse victim and offender). It too is a recognizable tactic of an abuser.

Only you can know if this is part of a bigger, more concerning pattern of behaviour. But from what you say in your post, I'd be worried. Hope you are OK

I think some people genuinely don't realise they are doing it or don't think far enough through it to realise it's wrong.
One I've experienced is partner changing work shifts and insisting they had told me, leaving us in a right state with childcare.
Never quite got to the point where I could decide if he genuinely thought he'd told me, or if he said it so I'd feel bad for not remembering and just sort out his issue.

I (briefly) worked under a female HT many years ago before I knew the term "gaslighting", but in retrospect, that was what it was. Her weakness was wanting to be thought of as a highly popular superhead, which made backing down difficult. She couldn't easily delegate, as somebody else might be praised, but nobody can keep up with everything....
I was only there for two days per week (two other schools on the go) so it was harder to keep me "reined in" so to speak, but I got wise to the changes of plans to wrongfoot me, leading to accusations that I was inflexible, not a team player, etc, . I think it annoyed her that I came to see the "bad atmosphere" days as no more my fault than the weather, confident that I was doing a decent job.
I found written messages were my friend; I'd take careful notes during our planning meetings, followed up with an email thanking her for her time, outlining the plans made, and asking her to let me know if I'd misunderstood anything. With a paper trail in place, she looked for easier targets, and I looked for another job. So did all the other good, experienced staff she was messing about; next inspection did not go well, as staffing became so unstable.
She reached statutory retirement age, and would have liked to carry on for a couple of years to improve her pension; LEA's are usually only too happy to keep a good HT in place, if they're willing! But she basically got told "Sorry, old lady, your time's up!" (they'd heard enough complaints from teachers who were safely clear of the situation.)
Yet when I saw her a couple of years later at a church service (yes, it was a CofE primary) I was greeted warmly as an old friend; History had been rewritten! Which leads me to think that PP's were right that sometimes these people convince themselves, as reality is too uncomfortable!

Marie someone has mentioned DARVO to me before. Definitely something I'll be aware of in future. Thank you.
Nauti yes, the saying"I told you that already", making it your problem!