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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To think I'm being punished for moving house and putting DC first?

53 replies

Namechange92810 · 09/08/2019 13:15

Sorry this is long.

11 years ago my grandmother died, her house was owned by her and my DF and her wishes were that her house would be left to me and my brother. Brother had no interest in the house at all so I moved in there with my now DH. House was signed over to me and DF decided on a set amount which I gave brother for his share of the house. Said that we had drawn a line under it, it was ours to do with what we liked. It was a shell of house worth very little in a poor area and we spent a lot of money on completely renovating it to make it habitable.

Now we have 2 DC and need more space. Concerned about going to school in rough area with terrible air quality (kids have allergies). Spoke with DF and he was supportive. Now we've had the house valued and suddenly he's said it's 'unfair' that were 'making money' out of the property (we're just moving to a nicer area for the sake of our kids FFS).

He said that when he dies now his property (which in his will was going to my brother on the previous 'understanding' it would be split 50/50) would now be split so that my brother would get the majority as half of any "profit" made between the price we'd agreed years ago and the amount we sell it for would be deducted from my inheritance.

He doesn't care that we haven't actually made any money because we've spent so much on it. Doesn't care that we have made a home here for 11 years but have genuinely outgrown it.

He doesn't care that by the time this happens my kids will be growing up/potentially going to uni/looking for their own houses and could use the help (brother doesn't have kids). Doesn't care that he's effectively gone back on his word saying that the house was ours because years later he is punishing us for wanting to move.

Brother has had the money for years and decided to stay living at home with DM. My view is he could have put it towards a house/bought a cheap house like ours and gone to the trouble of doing it up, etc. and chosen not to. It's not my fault so why am I and my children being punished?

Just to say I know I'm lucky to have any kind of inheritance. But its the principle of this. And it hurts that DF is seemingly punishing us (including my kids) for wanting to do what's best for DC. Particularly when he's always said he supports us moving.

OP posts:

ChicCroissant · 09/08/2019 13:23

So your DF is talking about his own house, not the house you are in now? He can do what he wants with that one, what happened to your DF's share of the house you are in that you want to sell (you say it was owned by your DF and your grandmother).

Your DF will be seeing the difference between the amount you gave your brother at the time and the value of the house now. I don't think there is any point in arguing with him, even if it isn't fair. I wouldn't say you are being punished though. You are taking this very personally, so that makes me wonder if there is some kind of backstory or if you feel that your brother is always favoured over you.

Just focus on the move OP, I hope the property search goes well

Beesandcheese · 09/08/2019 13:29

You can't influence what your df puts in his will. I would tell him you are sorry he feels he has to punish you for your choices and that he is trying to manipulate you but that you are doing what is best for your children.

Beesandcheese · 09/08/2019 13:31

And just do it. Maybe he will see sense. Maybe he won't but you can't pander to it because of an amount of money that might not exsist in x years time anyway.

IAskTooManyQuestions · 09/08/2019 13:34

House was signed over to me Is the house legally in your name 100% ?

I suppose you could produce a list of costs for refurbing to make a point.

bellabasset · 09/08/2019 13:38

What you say about your db is quite true but it doesn't sound as though your df has been realistic in understanding the value of any improvements you have made.

I think you just need to do what is right for you and your family and try not to let it upset you.

Pinkout · 09/08/2019 13:46

Gosh people become so petty with money, it seemingly makes animals out of otherwise sensible people.

You’re not in the wrong. You have made a profit both because you have paid so much of your own money to better the house and also because over a decade has past so all property will be worth more now. It’s called inflation, tell your DF to look it up .

onalongsabbatical · 09/08/2019 14:26

Whilst I don't agree with his reasoning, the upshot of this is that the child who doesn't own a house gets taken care of while the child that does has essentially taken care of themselves. People have different capacities to care for themselves and make lives, so the outcome really reflects this. Hard for you to see this from that viewpoint though, I'm sure.
You see it as your brother choosing to live with DM, but the reality for him may be he's been unable to be an adult and find an adult relationship - should he be punished for this OP?

ChicCroissant · 09/08/2019 14:29

I think the house being in the family has clouded the issue a bit tbh, I do wonder if you'd sold the house at the time and split the proceeds evenly whether this situation would have arisen? Would it have seemed more of a clean break if you hadn't moved in to a family property?

honeylulu · 09/08/2019 14:32

I'm not following ...

House owned by GM and DF. GM dies so house then owned by DF?
GM wishes were for house to pass to you and your brother but that sounds as if it wasn't actually in her will. Was it just what she hoped your DF would put in his will?

If the advice is right, your DF handed over his interest in the property voluntarily and pre- death which is quite good of him. You then "bought your brother out" for 50% market value at the time.

Now your DF thinks it's unfair on your brother because your asset has appreciated more than his. That isn't his business. As you say your brother could have put his funds into property.

However your DF can put what he wants in his will, unfair as it seems.

I'm struck that this has only cropped up now you want to sell the house. Do you think he is annoyed that you aren't "keeping it in the family" as he and your GM hoped? If so this might be a knee jerk reaction he calms down from. Or he might be determined to punish you...?

PlutocratCow · 09/08/2019 14:36

I think you need to separate out the emotional aspects (hard I know) and present the facts here tbh.

It's hard to understand exactly because I don't know if you're talking about a house which was legally properly dealt with as part of probate, as part of the estate, title deed updated and any inheritance tax paid, any cap gains liabilities predicted.. etc i.e. properly formally dealt with and agreed transparently...

Or if this is all on goodwill/expectations.

Op, and future readers, this is why you're best dealing with financial aspects between friends, relatives properly, not left as verbal promises or "well I thought this, you understand different" ... It just causes a bigger mess a few years later.

GreenFingersWouldBeHandy · 09/08/2019 14:37

If you gave your brother an agreed amount; you effectively bought him out. The house is your's to do with as you wish. It's got nothing to do with your DF.

However, what he decides to put in his will is up to him.

Just continue with your plans and stop worrying about it. You are not entitled to any inheritance, but you have been very fortunate that your GM bequeathed you the house.

toomuchtooold · 09/08/2019 14:37

Imagine you'd both decided you didn't want the house, sold it, and you'd taken your share as a deposit for a house while your brother stuck his in the bank and stayed at your mum's. In that situation, on seeing you move now, would your dad have changed his will?

PlutocratCow · 09/08/2019 14:38

Posted too soon.

Op, can you clarify the legal position in terms of the gran will? And how the gifting was done?

You likely will benefit from financial or estate advice unless it's been dealt with properly during probate. You need to ensure your bums covered from a tax pov apart from the confusion around family emotions....

thecatinthetwat · 09/08/2019 14:48

Did you genuinely pay 50% to your brother at the time? How did you value the property?

It sounds to me that df might be worried it was valued inaccurately at the time and is feeling bad.

Has the price increased a lot op?

OnlyFoolsnMothers · 09/08/2019 14:54

Yes its OPs fathers house and will, to do as he pleases but NO you dont treat siblings differently.
Ive seen a lot of shit hit the fan with inheritance and its not fun.
The father's inheritance should be split and the house is the OPs having legally bought out her brother.

Can your brother not see this and explain it your father?

73Sunglasslover · 09/08/2019 14:56

This sounds really complicated. It costs money to live anywhere and rather than spend it on rent you have benefitted from the arrangement. That said, your brother could have made different choices potentially to grow his investment too and had the housing market been different, you could have lost a lot of money. I can see where your dad is coming from but I don't agree with his logic. It is his to do with as he wishes though. I guess all you can do is explain how you see things and leave him to make his decisions. If I was your brother I would not accept more than 50% but I think you really are at their mercy. Don't stay put of the house is no longer right for you just because of this drama.

MollyButton · 09/08/2019 14:57

It is still probable that you are actually getting the best out of this deal. You have a house - which you can trade for a better house.
On the other hand your Brother got some money (it does depend just how much). And he has a future possibility of a house. The thing you and your Father don't seem to have taken into consideration is that "Father's house" may not even exist when he dies. If he needs long term care he may have been forced to sell it to pay for the care.

Of course there are lots of other factors: where each house is (Grandmother's house in Loughborough and Father's in Weybridge, would cause massive differences in value), how much was the share given to your brother, any health issues etc.

BlackCatSleeping · 09/08/2019 14:58

Will he see less of the kids once you move?

I'd leave it all for now. Hopefully, things will settle down and he'll realise that's he's being unreasonable able the whole thing. You can't force him to leave the house to you

ILoveAllRainbowsx · 09/08/2019 14:58

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

RowingMermaid · 09/08/2019 14:59

Your Dad could end up in a nursing home and be forced to sell his house to fund the cost.

Just move. But I would give him a list of all the costs of every bit of renovation you did so he can see the numbers for himself.

We have renovated 2 properties, the previous one where due to the market we literally made a £5k "profit" but it was to make it a nice home for us (removed 20 year old pink bathroom with gold taps for example, new boiler etc) and this house we live in now, again for our benefit. I think at the moment we are technically in profit, but we have invested heavily, garage conversion, kitchen extension, new double glazing, boiler etc.

Has your Dad always favoured his son? Does he not realise that by living with your Mum he won't be paying market rent for that room?

BlackCatSleeping · 09/08/2019 15:01

@honeylulu

I think there are two houses.

There's the grandmother's house which the OP owns and has done up. She gave her brother a token amount for his share.

Then, there's the father's house, which was supposed to be split evenly between the OP and her brother, but now the brother will get the lion's share and the OP a smaller share.

justasking111 · 09/08/2019 15:02

DF could leave it all to whoever he likes. However, it is likely it will go into residential home, nursing home fees long before then. Just crack on with your own life.

Bettyboopityboop · 09/08/2019 15:03

I'm not following this at all.

You paid for something you didn't inherit? Is any of this on paper or did you just assume your dad and would do the what your grandmother wanted?

SapatSea · 09/08/2019 15:08

He's being unfair and even his original declaration that he was leaving his house to your DB with an understanding to split it fifty/fifty is a recipe for disaster. However, your DF can do what he likes with his house.

My MIL borrowed a six figure sum from us, promised it would be paid back in her will when she would leave DH fifty per cent share of her house. Ha! left it all to his feckless brother and we are saddled with debt on our mortgage. Nothing to do with fair or who has been prudent with money. Live your life and do what is best for your DC.

Topseyt · 09/08/2019 15:11

What did your Grandmother's will actually say?

If your father owned a 50% share in the house then I'm surprised she could will his half to you and your brother anyway, or were there perhaps some covenants or deeds of trust behind the scenes here which meant that this would happen?

Did you have a solicitor enacting the conveyancing of the house to you, and possibly overseeing the enactment of the will? Do you have documentary evidence that the title deeds to the house are in your sole name and nobody else has any registered interest in it?

It sounds like your Dad (and brother) didn't really think very far ahead when you moved into the house and bought your brother out. They may only now be realising how short sighted they were and this is your Dad's cack-handed way of trying to do something about it. In reality there is nothing you can do to stop him doing this, however unfair it is (and I agree that it is).

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