For thinking about leaving him because...

[mediocrity]

his response to dd's late-night, overtired, learning-to-potty-train-therefore-obsessed-with-the-loo tantrum was to "lock her in there by herself" and his response to a different tantrum was "she's not crying out of pain, she needs to be given something real to cry about." Am I being unreasonable for wanting to kick him to the curb?

p.s. I posted awhile back about whether or not to leave when the marriage is mediocre. Now I'm increasingly feeling that his attitude towards dd is making it much worse than just mediocre.

Divastrop - ah, good question. Do I love him? Not so sure. Many days, I would say no. I love the person he was before dd was born but having her around has shown me sides of him that I don't like AT ALL. I think a large portion of me has already given up on him but there's a small part that is still holding on. And, another larger part that is scared of being a single mother. And the other part that is scared of negative impacts on dd (but that works both ways -scared for if we stay together AND scared for if we split up and beating myself up for being in such a horrid situation).

Feeling just a wee bit LOST

we sure need parenting classes for boys/men. If he has learnt bad parenting he is off to a weak start. IMO strong Mums who are confident about their parenting skills can reassure panicking dads - just by being confident and quoting their mums, his mum (if good mum) or current proved research findings. eg. They have proved at ..... university that patient, calm responses whilst potty training has the best results. ... but also .. when people are tired they don't behave normally. People change .. second relationships with DSS's are even tougher .. but if it gets violent get out.. just my opinion.

Mediocrity - is it possible that your Dh is himself in need of some TLC and feeling a bit displaced/neglected or something like that? Is this first child? Don't some men struggle to make the adjustment to tve new life and implications of new person? And sleepness nights and everything that goes with lack of sleep etc. Okay, that would make Dh immature and not the ideal husband but hasty advice to leave him if he is spiteful but NOT violent, a bit hasty. Perhaps he also needs mothering like so many men. Not great obviously but could be some deep insecurity that may not manifest itself in violence- I am sure that you already know whether he is the kind to be violent.

Many people have a mommy and daddy night timetabled for going out and all that kind of stuff just so that everyone gets some air. I am sure you know all that stuff butmy first thouhgts were that he is unhappy with the new lifestyle and full of pent up resentment.

Also, apply the same technique to husbands as you do with children; reward/praise good behaviour and punish him when he is out of line :-)

WHy don't you have a trial separation? Or maybe encourage him to go away for a week with his friends or something. That way you can get a feel for what it is like being alone, just you and baby. I did that, and I felt SO much less stressed, less negative, I'd have a lovely day with the kids, get them off to bed then read or have friends over in the evening for a bottle of wine, then up in the morning - no resentment at my man for not getting up, as he wasn't there, and so no starting the day on a negative note. Honestly, do not be scared of being a single parent, it is totally 100% better than being a parent in a diabolical relationship where you cannot even leave your child with their father! girl power. Seriously!

I dont think you're being unreasonable but I do think you need to think this through, talk it through and be very sure of your decision before you walk out on your marriage.

ANd just one more thing - all this talk about you helping him, praising him, blah blah - WHY shoudl you have to do that?! He is an adult, and you are doing all of the parenting - you shoudl be the one entitled to the odd tantrum! If he needs spoon feeding to be a reasonable human being, then really he sounds like an utter waste of space!

First, Toughdaddy - I appreciate your suggestions but I don't think they really apply. He goes out all the time (most weekend nights, usually without me along) whereas the night I left her with him was, I believe, the 3 or 4th time I have been out by myself (aside from work) since dd was born. So, I don't think he is in need of some air. I am, though! I do agree that sometimes there is displacement of the father but I don't think that is what's going on here. Maybe I'm wrong though.

PSCMum - a trial separation... I've gone away for a couple of weeks with dd to visit my family and it was heaven. Of course, I was also on vacation so it's not a fair comparison to real life. I do know that I really didn't miss having him around. A real-separation (aka "we're separated") probably wouldn't work as he's said in other contexts that he doesn't believe in "taking time out" as such and that if it gets to that then that's the end of things.

o you poor thing. I really really feel for you. But he just sounds like he is not good for you or for your little person. What is it that is making you stay with him? Is it money? Or nervous about 'depriving' baby of their dad? If its the latter - don't be! If he is the father your child deserves, he will stick around for her whether or not he is in a relationship with you. If he doesn't, then you have confirmation that he is not good enough for her! Tell me what's making you stay?

YANBU - if you do not think you should leave your dd alone with this man you should leave him.

I think you know deep down that this isn't the relationship for you, but need some reassurance.
Sometimes we know that we should end something, but hang on too long, for fear of making a mistake, it seems that you want to try being alone, but aren't wanting to risk that he may not come back if you decide you have made a mistake.
Good luck with whatever you decide, but I think the decision has already been made and you're just worried to follow it through.

Oh dear...

What's making me stay? Fear. Fear of being a single mother (not so much financially as I will prob always make a decent salary (although not enough to pay for a nanny....) but logistically - although, I feel like I'm mostly a single mum now as it is...). Fear of depriving my dd of a father - even if he's not the best one in the world. Maybe he will stay a part of her life but I'm pretty sure he's not going to be the active-father type. Fear that maybe I could make it work somehow and I'm giving up too easily. Fear that I am overreacting. Fear of admitting failure - if I get divorced that means I screwed up big time - I don't want to admit that.

My reasons for not wanting to leave him alone with her. 1- fear that he will leave her unwatched and she'll crack her head open. 2 - fear that he will lose his temper. I don't think he would beat her but I do think he would be overly mean to her and/or spank her.

Essentially, I'm scared. Don't really know what to do.

Honey, if you are already scared that he will tip over into violence against your dd, then that is very worrying . Because children tend to get harder to deal with and more potentially aggravating as the years go by, not less so! I mean, how is he going to react when she gets to the age when she can answer back?

hi mediocrity, just to play devil's advocate i feel i should say don't forget that some people (mums AND dads) don't cope very well with the difficult pre-verbal early years. He has told your dd to get down from the toilet seat, or wherever, and she's not listening, and he is frustrated, and doesn't know what to do, hence the 'let her fall' comments. It IS horrid of him. BUT perhaps he will relate much better to an older child who can understand and listen and chat and generally be more interactive. I know my dp was/is like this.

how was his upbringing? maybe he thinks that's what parenting is or should be like - a much stricter, let them eat porridge, discipline-led kind of thing? In which case he needs educating that it doesn't HAVE to be like that and everyone will probably be happier if he puts himself in his dd's place and tries to focus on encouragement and/or distraction rather than threats and/or punishment.

In other words, if you do love him and he loves you and dd, there could be a future there, you just have to tread a bit carefully to make him realise this... I almost feel sorry for him, he just has no idea how to cope with his own dd.

sorry for rambling...

good luck xxx

mediocrity.
my dh can be just the same at times.
he seems to have a very negative attitude towards our children and it makes me hate him.

mediocrity, of course you're scared!! You're only human, and not only have I been there, but I know plenty of others that have too. TBH, the father thing was what kept me in my 'relationship' for so long, but I came to realise that it wasn't that he deserved to play a part in their lives or that they deserved him to stick around/play a part, what they andyou deserve is feeling secure, and not having a father figure IMO is better than having one who resents your DD and is maybe only still around for duty .
Also, I was 24 yo when I split with my partner of 6 years, I was left with two children, one under 5, one only eight months old, not much later I met a wonderful man, who is a better parent to my DC's than I!!!! He has taken on both myself and my DC's and is a great father figure. There can be a happy ending.

Thank you all for being so supportive.

Indiemummy - I know that his parents were pro-spanking and it's probably coming from there, at least a bit. But, I have a hard time accepting such anger towards an 18 month old. She's so LITTLE!!!

Dinosaur - part of what worries me. If he's so easily angered when she's so tiny, what will happen when she's older and gets into a strop, or a teen who sneaks out at night...

Lorayn - good to know that there are happy endings out there. I think part of me is scared of spliting up with him for fear of being alone for the rest of my life. I realise that I could find someone else but I think I need to be ready for the possibility that I won't.

Flowers - I'm sorry to hear that you are going through something similar. It's horrible, isn't it. I don't want to hate him but sometimes I really do. His attitude towards dd really ticks me off. But, then, there are moments when he can be really loving, when he gives her hugs and kisses, etc and I start to think maybe I'm being unfair. God, it's frustrating.

I agree that comments about leaving him are way over the top. You both need to communicate about your views on parenting, and mediocrity you need to draw a line in the sand about what you will and you won't accept; if it's absolutely 100% no hitting or 'smacking', and I agree with that by the way, then you must tell him so and make it clear that for you that would be IT. He needs it spelled out. And I agree with Xenia that he needs to look at some information which makes it clear what is age appropriate for an 18 month old so that he is not getting angry at what is completely normal.

And you need to take the long view; these early years are THE hardest on a marriage but it does get easier.

It is very important to a child to have her parents together; obviously if things are abusive, then no it's outweighed; but basically it's hugely important - you are the only mum and dad she will ever have and that is worth fighting for IMO.

He needs things absolutely spelled out to him but I also think you may need to accept that he might not be a 'star' dad at this point in time; but as she gets older and more reasonable he might shine; particularly if you have told him exactly what you will and won't tolerate.

good luck mediocrity. I had all your fears a few years ago, and am now divorced (& do not regret it). Hope you find your way through.

medicrity, i havent read through all of these posts so forgive me if i have missed something, however i did pick up on one thing and i felt i had to post. In one of your posts you said that your DH is not the person he was before dd. From initially reading your posts your dh comes across as a bullying selfish arsehole and the easy response would be to get rid of him. And to be fair, that is easy enough if you dont actually love him anymore. However, you clearly do. Of course the behaviour you are describing is totally unacceptable and must be adressed by you and more importanly by your man. Does he make these comments to antagonise you or are they genuine frustrations?

It seems to me that he could be depressed. He may feel overwhelmed by the whole parenting thing and feel simply inadequate, and then hides it by this seemingly heartless behaviour. I would like to make the point here that if you were describing your own behaviour the responses you would have received may have been more along the lines of PND and you need some help. It could just be, and i could well be wrong, that your partner is suffering from depression. The reason i am suggesting this is because you say he has changed since dd. Also, have you changed too? are you feeling low and sourcing your feelings against dh? I am speaking from experience, having just been diagnosed, after about 2 years with my head in the sand, with depression and what you say about the person not being the same rings so true to me, my dp says it about me and i say it about him. My depression has literally drained the poor guy.

Do take a step back and think about this, even if it is just to rule it out. Talk to your dp and explain how you are feeling. Of course if he is not willing or able to confront this and continues to make these comments and veiled threats then you may have no alternative but to leave.

The problem with posting on here, ive done it too so please dont think im criticising is that other people only hear the one side of the argument and you may get biased answers because of it.

I wish you and your family well.

great post lucy....

lucyellensmum could be right, but remember, it isn't just about you loving him, but him loving you. It would be great if you could work it out, but as I said before I still think you made this decision already. Good luck either way. x

o for gods sake! I wish everyone could escape that silly idea that 2 parents are better than 1 unless violence is involved Honaria. If you stay with him and he stays as he is, your daughter will grow up thinking ' o great, when i grow up i can be in a really unhappy inequal relationship where i am nervous of my partner, have to slave after children all day, and never have any fun myself' this is seriously what you are lining her up for. Everyone going on about his upbringing and how that may have turned him into an arsehole... What about your dd's upbringing now? It may well turn her into a door mat who'll grow up to expect the diabolical treatment her mother accpted for years. I think you should be way more frightened of that, than of being a single mum or of giving on an already horrible relationship. Sorry for my strong words, but I've bene trhough this and my children are so so much the better for it - my only regret is I sat around for ages worrying about whether it was the right thing to do! It is!

Only read the op, but it sounds as though your just waiting for a decent excuse to get out of the relationship.
My partner and i always differ on our parenting decsions, but i have managed to convince him that i have the final word. I am ultimately in charge as im with the dc for 90% of the time. I know what works and what doesnt. I set the rules etc. So he has little choice, but he does annoy me when he disagrees and tries something new or a new approach that i KNOW will fail or backfire.

Good luck with what you decide.

mediocrity,

I am going to be the BAD guy here. While I agree that husbands behavior was not the best, we all lose it and say dumb ass stuff sometimes. Chances are he just does not know how to deal with the tantrums and is finding it very frustrating.

Parents often bring different parenting styles (not always acceptable styles) and then you have to work through these issues. Perhaps you can get DH to go to a parenting class with you.

As for mediocre marriage, many marriages go through mediocre periods. You both have to work on turning mediocre into great.