To wonder if it's unfair to have children if you knowing they'll probably be your carer?

[Zippylove]

Saw a documentary on child carers, it was moving and I very much admire these young people and the love they have for the parents they care for.

A couple I know had a child knowing their child would probably become their carer when old enough. Both have illnesses, which they had before they had their ds came along. The child cannot do normal childhood things and their social life is severely restricted. Is it unfair?

It's more than unfair, it's incredibly selfish.

I think so, yes. Having children is not a right. But saying that, if there was adequate funding for care it would be less of an issue. It is all a bit shit though isn’t it and unfair for all concerned.

I was bred for caring for my granddad
It was just a fact for me-I did it all from a young age as the adults in my life didn’t want to do it
I missed out on a lot but the bond we had was so strong
If I could do it all again I would but looking back it was unfair
Others should have stepped up instead of leaving it all to me

I am childfree by choice and one of the most common questions I get asked is ‘who will look after you when you’re old?’.

Gee, the hunky male nurse I hire with all the money I’ve saved by not having kids!! I always ask if they know how much it costs on average to raise a child to 18!

A) Anyone who has children to have someone to look after them in old age is selfish!

B) There is no guarantee your kids are going to stick around and help their parents. Plenty of lonely old mums, dads and grandparents in care homes.

I think to deliberately do it is possibly unfair. However, I didn’t know before having my kids that I would later become disabled. Ds1 especially has had to step into something of a carer role, and obviously it’s not what I would have wanted for him, but we’re a happy family and we muddle along. There’s some things we can’t do, but all families face restrictions, whether financial or practical or whatever else.

I think it's dreadfully selfish.

Apart from anything else, what would happen if the child was born with serious lifelong care needs themselves?

I think it's disgusting that there are actually official guidelines and procedures to be followed when dealing with child carers - not just ones who lend mum or dad a hand now and again, but ones who have a 24/7 caring duty. How is this even legal? Considering that you hear of all these ridiculous stories where adults in professional jobs aren't allowed to climb a 6-foot ladder or ride a bike unless they've been properly 'trained'. In any case, even actual adult carers do shifts and aren't responsible for their clients non-stop.

Extremely selfish but it happens in most families at some point. Obviously when the caring begins at a young age that’s different - and I would assume that’s what you are talking about.

I think it's incredibly selfish. Have children to give them wings, and your blessing to fly away as and when they wish. Emotional blackmail should play no part in parenting.

However, I didn’t know before having my kids that I would later become disabled. Ds1 especially has had to step into something of a carer role, and obviously it’s not what I would have wanted for him, but we’re a happy family and we muddle along.

That's completely different, though. None of us know what will befall us in our lives, but when you do have full knowledge before a child is even conceived, I think it's very wrong.

By way of a crude analogy, many people buy critical illness insurance and most are lucky enough never to have to claim, but a sizeable minority do later find themselves in the position of needing to claim. However, if you already have a critical illness, no insurer would sell you the cover from then on (assuming you told the truth when applying).

Yes it is absolutely selfish.

I have actually said to my husband if I become ill I want them to just stick me away in a care home rather than force my girls to care for me. Or take me to Switzerland. Whatever. I do not want that life for them.

Some parents do not consider the needs of their future kids before having them. They do not consider whether they can physically or emotionally care for them properly. So you have people who are alcoholics, who are drug addicts, who are barely able to look after themselves because of emotional difficulties, or are disabled and ill and going to struggle to care for their child. There is no test to have a child, so it is something that is part of life.

I do think it is totally different if one parent is disabled and can not physically care for a child and the other is not. But I have also seen a single woman who had carers choosing to have a child.

A couple I know had a child knowing their child would probably become their carer when old enough.

Have they SAID that they 'know' that their DC will be their carer?

Or are you making a string of assumptions?

But I have also seen a single woman who had carers choosing to have a child.

And?

The carers are to mitigate her lack of physical function, child or not.

Presumably the whole thing was considered in advance and in great detail by those concerned, who will inevitably have more insight than you have into the whole picture.

@rubbertreeplant How would it have been considered by anyone except the woman involved?
She could not physically care for a baby without help. She lived alone without a partner. She made the decision to have a baby herself.

Of course anyone can decide that, but yes I think it was a reckless decision.

Having children is inherently selfish. If a disabled person/s has a long term plan for care for themselves, I think it can work.

Presumably the whole thing was considered in advance and in great detail by those concerned, who will inevitably have more insight than you have into the whole picture

Yeah coz that always happens, doesn’t it? Child careers - an urban myth really. Don’t exist.

@Tayo I didn't suggest that child carers don't exist

Just to add, it was not planned in advance with professionals input. This woman decided to have a baby and set out to get pregnant. She rightly has bodily autonomy, so the professionals then had to make a plan with her how her baby was going to be cared for, given that she was unable to physically care for herself and or a baby without help.
I know there are those on MN who will defend any mother having a baby no matter what, but yes I thought this was irresponsible.

I also know a women who is disabled and need help caring for themselves have a baby with a physically able bodied partner. They did plan it through thoroughly and the child is very well cared for. A physically disabled woman can have a child, but there needs to be permanent day-to-day support there such as a partner or other relative.

A physically disabled woman can have a child, but there needs to be permanent day-to-day support there such as a partner or other relative.

What a ludicrously sweeping statement.

All physical disabilities are not the same, all women are not the same, all relationships are not the same...etc.

Read the context. I mean when a woman needs carers because she can not care for herself without help never mind a baby.

No, I'm not going to judge a woman/family on the basis of a few -biased - lines. Sorry.

There's a nasty whiff to this thread.

( @Schuyler excepted )

So much judgement in this thread.

I'm disabled and have chosen not to have children. People often assume this is because I am disabled, and congratulate me on my sensible decision. I did consider the practicalities around my disability, but it was part of the reason, not the only one, and I may well have had children in other circumstances, while still being disabled.

I know many disabled people who are excellent parents, whose children don't have caring responsibilities, this isn't about whether someone is disabled or not.

I also know disabled people whose children are a bit older, who want to get their kids to take some responsibilities and give them some chores, some tasks to help around the house, and worry their kids will get labelled young carers as a result.

Consider that if we are living in a society where school age children regularly take on caring responsibilities for their disabled parents, that might be because we have a social care system which is properly on its knees.

I live alone and have just had major surgery. The NHS gave me a couple of bits of plastic for the kitchen and bathroom to make things marginally easier, but at no point did anyone suggest I may qualify for social care. I ended up paying for it myself because I just wasn't coping / didn't feel safe.

People who look at this issue and suggest disabled people shouldn't have children could probably direct their energy into suggesting we have a social care system which supports those who need it.

Yes we should have better social care. I know all about social care. I have a disability myself, my DP does as well, and I care for a relative with schizophrenia. So don't lecture me on the limits of social care.

But when we have children we bring them into the world as it is, not the one we want it to be. So we should be aware of that when we make the decision to have children.

Most children classified as carers actually have parents with mental health problems or alcohol or drug addictions, or disabled siblings. And of course parents can become ill or disabled and need help after having had a child, that is not planned.

My DP actually has a disability that did not seem to severe when we had kids. Slight mobility issues, but no big deal. But he was misdiagnosed and in the last few years his issues have got much worse. But between us we do manage. We are not as physically active parents as I would like to be, no running around playing football, but we have always been able to provide the physical and emotional care needed.

As mentioned previously, having children in any situation is a selfish thing to do. And that's ok. But yes, I do agree that it's ridiculously unfair to have a child knowing that it will be born into a life of caring duties.

If the DC cannot do the things others take for granted like playing out with friends, activities outside the home, if it affects their socialisation and education, if they aren't getting clean clothes and nutritious food, if they have to become babysitters for younger siblings then there's something wrong.

I am not saying that disabled people should not have children full stop. But children should be receivers of care, not givers. If there is no permanent support system in place for the parent, meaning that the child takes on the duties or there is no permanent support system in place for the child, meaning that they are not being cared for properly then I think it would be a dreadful decision.