At my wits end with my sons aggression - where to turn

[LighteningSam]

My 8 year old son cannot control his temper. We are a stable, happy household. We have never hit the children and rarely shout. My son has always been full on and hot headed. He is big for his age and very strong. When he is in a tricky situation his response will be to lash out. Today he hurt a similar aged boy at the park - the boy was trying to snatch his football but my son's response was to thump him in the neck. This afternoon he pushed his younger brother in an argument so hard he fell off a chair into a window. He is always really, really sorry after but in the moment he sees red and loses control. I always talk to him about the incident, how we should of dealt with it and the fact he will have consequences. For example, today he has lost his football day on Thursday, something he was desperately looking forward too and lost electronics for the week. I feel awful taking these things away but really don't know what else to do anymore.

We go outside a lot, he has lots of opportunity to run off energy. He eats a very healthy diet and we don't have any processed foods in the house. He has always struggled to manage his feelings, to the point of school raising queries about autism before than later dismissing it. He is bright, capable and happy all the rest of the time, maintains good friendships and is most of the time a lovely boy. He can reflect after how his behaviour was wrong and the harm he has caused and is always eager to make amends. He just sees a red mist when angry and it's like he loses complete control. I am not defending this behaviour at all - he cannot go around hurting other children but I'm at my wits end about how to get through to him and help him manage his anger better, I am terrified he will really hurt someone one day.

That's really worrying. What's his reaction if someone whacks him?

If another child whacks him he would whack back, then be really sad about it and really beat himself up about it.

He needs some sort of anger management course, doesn't he? I'm not sure where you'd go for that - hope someone can give some good advice soon.

This is the NHS page on anger in children. There's a helpline number you might find useful.

I do think that's a bit worrying - at 8, he should be able to control his anger better than that.

He shows remorse after/understands that he was wrong which is a good sign.

Does he do the same things at school?

I wonder whether some form of SALT may help to support him with ways to express his emotions in a better way.

When he is calm, can you talk through an action plan for when he feels angry - something like leaving the room and counting to 20 slowly? Maybe practice/model it with him for the first few weeks. So, if something is happening that you at not happy with (even if you don't feel angry as such), model the leaving the room and counting thing.

You may need to step in and support him to follow the plan at first.

Also, this may sound like a bizarre suggestion, but what about karate lessons? They obviously teach the martial arts but a good dojo will also teach control and discipline.

We don't seem to have these issues at school - the conversations we have at school are more around anxiety/ self doubt. For example he is very bright, top in his class for most subjects, but gets really down on himself if he gets one answer wrong out of 20. It happens mainly with his younger brother, today was the first time I witnessed it with another child. He will hit or thump me if I say something he is unhappy with.
Thanks for the advice Pumpkin xx

Yes you need to speak to his GP.

They’ll be able to tell you the next steps.
Has he been tested for anything.
One thing I will say thought about the boy in the park and please do not misunderstand me. I’m not condoning him hitting anyone. However. You say the other boy was trying to snatch his football. That’s his property. Imagine for example someone tried to snatch your phone out of your hands...

Honestly, I've known people who grew up acting very much like this. They used their "I beat myself up about this SO much" tactic to make people actually pity them instead of coming down hard when they acted aggressive or violent.

I seriously wonder if the reason you don't see the issues at school and do see them at home is that school doesn't give a damn whether your son is sorry or not. They don't sit him down and have long, patient talks about his actions and listen to him crying about the red mist descending. He fucks up, he gets punished, no chance to mitigate by manipulating someone into feeling sorry for him.

First off, the electronics can leave for good, and you should tell him that it's because it's making him care less about the real world and that he doesn't seem able to separate fantasy and reality, or divert his attention to real matters. Can I ask whether he's playing games involving violence?

Also, it sounds like so far, your punishments for him have been about stopping him from having/doing things he likes. Kids (rightly) interpret parents seeking their favorite things to take away and taking them away because they're the favorite, as a power game and may lash out about it.

Consider that the reaction to something like today needs to be tailored to what happened. He hit a boy in the park? Guess you're not going to the park for a good, long while. Or anywhere else where there might be kids he can thump. Tell him it's not about power, it's about safety.

Next time he thumps you for saying something he doesn't like, you need to come down on it like a ton of bricks. Every man I know who abused his wife started by abusing his mother. This will not stop. In a few years he'll hit puberty, and you'll have a son you are afraid of.

The NHS are shite with stuff like this. Have a look at LiveintheBalance.org and books by Ross Greene, FB group The B Team.

This is going to sound like a far out suggestion but I would look at removing carbohydrates from his diet. Try to watch The Magic Pill on Netflix and then make up your mind.

Good luck

Your son sounds just like my husband as a child - big, strong and angry. I have no idea what the solution is, but I just wanted you to know he grew in to a lovely, kind adult who is still a hot head but doesn't thump other people in the throat

If your kid hits you it shows a real lack of respect for you as an authority / disciplinary figure...I suspect you are really gentle & spend excessive time talking through his feelings. I hazard a guess you make way too many excuses for his bad behaviour - can’t believe you didn’t mention your son hits you in your opening post! You mention it like an afterthought....

Is it time to take another look at autism?

Any sensory issues?
Rigidity? Having to do things the same way every time?
Social issues?

Possibly ADHD?

Read up on parenting techniques and see if there is anything that may help your situation.

Ask for a referral for support from the GP.

Womb the ONLY game he plays is minecraft and only in creative mode, there are no games with violence.
Thank you for the advice and reflections above. I possibly am more of a gentle parent than disciplinarian type and maybe I need to find a different balance.
Blackeyed we have had social issues in the passed, crippling lack of confidence and ability to interact with others. We have worked alot with school and others to overcome this and he has come on great guns, it is like we're now swinging the other way - like he has shifted from flight mode to fight instead.
Thank you for the reading suggestions, these are particularly helpful.

• past!!!! not passed!!

What is his relationship like with his Dad? Does he hit his Dad, or just you and brother?

Anxiety at school - can you explain more? (My own DC has Aspergers and it exhibits itself mostly through anxiety over situations. It could be your DS is similar but is using hitting as a way to get out his anxious feelings). Don't wait for school to make a referral for an ASD diagnosis if you think it's what is behind the behaviour - go to GP yourself and ask for help.

How is his language and communication? Why did he not choose to request the boy give his ball back first, and instead go straight into hitting? Frustration or lack of understanding of the situation and how to handle the taking of his ball?

Why does he hit you, what leads to this?

You don't have to answer here, these are just Qs for you to consider and see if there is a pattern and what the triggers are.

There is a good booked called 'what to do when your temper flares' and another 'what to do when you worry to much'. They are books you work through together with good calming techniques. We also had 'the dissppointment dragon' "A huge bag of worries' and 'have you filled a bucket today' which are helpful stories.
Without meaning to alarm you my child has ASD and was a bit like this but it was due to high anxiety and being stuck in a fight, flight or freeze cycle. He is not so anxious now as he is no longer in an environmrnt thst made him anxious and this has reduced massively / stopped. The OT and SaLT assessment were useful.

OP my youngest was exactly the same, right down to good diet, calm family, all of that.

All I can say is that we can’t down very hard on him every time, but nothing worked. The trouble was, that he knew it was wrong and would cry hysterically sometimes after lashing out, he always felt deep remorse. Both at home and the school were very strict and implemented all sorts of harsh consequences, despite me actually wondering if there was another way. I started reading up on different techniques and reasons for this kind of behaviour and kept coming across Zones of Regulation. I printed some stuff out and took it into a school meeting. They agreed that punishment wasn’t working and that something had to give so they gave him some 1-1 time with a TA doing work on emotions and getting “back to green”, and we did lots of work on and around identifying emotions, and talking through upsetting scenarios at home. I had always felt it was possibly relevant too that my son is the youngest in his school year, and also extremely clever. He’s the cleverest and wildest of my children, I mean things like reading sheet music at 4, reading chapter books ridiculously early and actually getting what they are about. Emotionally he’s always been way behind though.

Anyway. Since having the intense talks about emotions and labelling them all the time, plus about ten sessions at school with the TA doing zones of regulation, he’s completely turned it around. His behaviour has changed so dramatically that his end of year report compared to the Easter one was like reading about a different child.

He was always so kind and loving and very sensitive, but lashed out in anger like a wild animal. He had absolutely zero self control, and would be devastated by his own behaviour and feel throughly ashamed of himself. But couldn’t seem to get to grips with himself.

I don’t know if any of that will help but wanted to tell you that it’s not always something we can punish out of our children. Sometimes we need to completely rethink our approaches. My older children never hit or lash out, never. We are what I would consider as firm and fair, we’re strict and have high expectations of behaviour, but my youngest threw me right off balance.

I agree with babyspider re the boy in the park. As the boy who took the ball was around a similar age I think that reaction from your son was not wholly abnormal.

The anxiety sounds linked to the anger so I hope you can get some help. Does he do any sports, exercise can really help to disperse bad feelings?

Shawshank it's useful to think these things through.
He has a great relationship with his Dad - they share a hobby of fossilling and this has been great for DS. He will lash out at him but more like barging/ shoving. It'll be if we've said no to something or he wants to do something we don't agree with - we seem to be struggling with him wanting more responsibility/ independence and it being inappropriate. i.e. going to shop on his own.
He is very bright, and very good at communicating - when he wants to. When he is calm we have great chats - he is really interested in the world, passionate about the environment, interested in things like politics and how things work. when he is into a hobby he is really into it and will read round it all - so for example currently it is geology. His anxiety at schools comes from a perfectionism - he has to be brilliant at perfect at something or he is reluctant to even try, so he gets very down on himself. They describe him at times at school as a 'loner' but I don't see this at home. When he was younger he wouldn't go to parties etc, found it hard to make friends, but he is so much better now. He has more recently formed a closer friendship with one boy which seems positive. He won't take part in group performances at school - or put himself on public display in any way - school let this be he choice. He does Cubs which has helped him a lot - he actually went on camp a few weeks ago without me which was an absolute firstand an incredible step for him!
He is such a lovely, loving and wonderful boy. He will make things for people, do thoughtful acts, it is this 'red mist' issue which is his real downfall at the moment and I just really want to find a way to help him through this.

thewar that post really, really has helped and sounds so very similar to the situation I'm finding we're in!

Also not wanting to diagnose on an Internet forum but what you describe is very like one of mine who has ASD and ADHD. Deeply apologetic afterwards and then so self critical and distressed at their own behaviour. But not able to stop in the moment. I would try to go back to school or GP or if you can afford it, get a child psychologist involved privately if school /GP aren’t helpful. And incidentally as the parent of a child with SEN who is at times violent, I would say keep on with gentle parenting. Nothing I could do in terms of punishment would hurt my child as much as their own self criticism does.

Thank you lost, your last sentence particularly resonates - 'Nothing I could do in terms of punishment would hurt my child as much as their own self criticism does'

DS used find it v hard to control his emotions and he has grown out of it in the main now. I thought of everything from autism to anger management but now he’s just a typical grumpy teen!!
DS did have some therapy and it did improve things - we got referred to Camhs - they gave him techniques such as breathing exercises to practice when he was calm to use when the most descended. I also stay much more calm now when I’m annoyed w him which helps too. At one point I was worried that he’d turn into a domestic abuser when he was older as the switch would just flip, but I don’t now.
My advice is to stay as calm as you can or ignore minor kick offs (whatever works better), get a referral to a therapist of some kind (gp can advise or if camhs is too full then try privately if that’s an option).
DS was similar in terms of the perfection thing, but he isn’t any more (not always a good thing in gcse years). He will put a lot of effort into what he’s good at and ignore the less easy stuff. I expect that’s pretty standard though.

Yes, that last part from lost too!

My son’s teacher would be telling me that something needs to be done, telling me he’s pushed someone over that’s upset him, but he would be sobbing in the corner as I’m being told this. He would cry so hard walking home that he would hyperventilate, repeating himself that he was sorry and didn’t mean it. I knew him well enough to believe him, but it was getting a grip on it that was crucial to his own happiness and everyone else’s. Since all the Zone work, he’s able to just say what he wants rather than whirling into a ball of emotion. He’s had offers to hang out with other kids, and praise from teachers almost every day since.

With the whole ASD thing, I would look at it again but in the meantime, look at methods for coping with autism and see if you can apply some to your son. My other child has ASD and some things are so simple that they can be applied to other children without harm. For example having a clear calendar and schedule for him to access, to reduce the anxiety that surrounds unpredictability. Looking at what we call the iceberg, finding the roots of the behaviour at the top of the iceberg, finding patterns. Using clear language and reducing choice to two or three. Even questions like “what shall we do this afternoon?” Can be a lot of pressure for some children.

Look up the Zones of Regulation and ASD strategies and see if there’s anything you can implement in small stages without too much confusion for your son.