AIBU to think that part time/flexible working shouldn’t hold you back in the public sector?

[MissB83]

To prevent drip feeding I work 4 days a week, 2 from home, in a public sector role. It is the kind of role that you can do at home or in the office, and most of my full time colleagues work 1 or 2 days a week from home as well. In my case I have a small child so it helps with childcare and avoiding time spent commuting instead of working.

However I was told off the cuff by a senior manager that working part time/from home would mean it took me longer to get up to speed with the team's work and would also slow down promotion prospects.

If a workplace offers a flexible working policy in the first place does this seem fair? Or is this discriminatory? (Possibly indirectly as more women are part time?)

Any thoughts?

I'm not sure it's fair but I do think being out of the workplace regularly hinders you a bit. I work in the public sector and only work from home during the holidays and even then it's very occasionally. The option is there and in some cases it can be helpful but you end up feeling out of the loop imo

I'm in the same position....public sector + part time = stuck where you are. V little opportunity for promotion anyway given cuts, but even less so when part time. Presenteeism a massive issue, despite efficiency being increased by part time/home working

No one would usually admit what that senior manager has done, but yes I think it would IME, and yes I think it’s unfair / discriminatory.

I’d say it’s the part time as well as the from home. All organisations reward people they can count on, and part time AND wfh is two things against you - it’s just honest. I wouldn’t expect to progress as fast as a full time office based worker as they have prioritised work more than I have.

I don’t see the unfair or discriminatory part to it if you have lost out on progression to staff that are office based and do more hours - they’ve shown more commitment.

I think some more senior roles do require more hours than part-time and so this can stall progress. Also, if working fewer hours and in a hands on/learning a skill or training post then clearly if you work fewer hours then you’ll have less hands-on experience or fine less training than full time equivalent. Obviously that issue is not relevant to all roles.

Of course, there definitely can be an issue with presentee-ism. I think sometimes it’s also about being “out of the loop” and not have made the same contacts/connections.

I can (sort of) see the logic if someone is, say, 2 or 3 days a week or if no one who is full time works from home.

But if a majority of staff (without kids) do 2 days a week out of 5 from home, that's 40%. I do 50%. And I do 30 hours out of 37 hours so that's only 20% fewer hours. So how much difference should it make?

I'm not trying to be perverse, just finding it a bit confusing. I guess I thought the world had moved on a bit to the extent that productivity and quality of work was a more relevant measure than presenteeism and number of hours!

I can (sort of) see the logic if someone is, say, 2 or 3 days a week or if no one who is full time works from home.

But if a majority of staff (without kids) do 2 days a week out of 5 from home, that's 40%. I do 50%. And I do 30 hours out of 37 hours so that's only 20% fewer hours. So how much difference should it make?

I'm not trying to be perverse, just finding it a bit confusing. I guess I thought the world had moved on a bit to the extent that productivity and quality of work was a more relevant measure than presenteeism and number of hours!

Sorry double post, app is a bit glitchy.

Sorry double post, app is a bit glitchy.

It depends which area you work in I think. I'm part time public sector and have been for over 10 years nkw. I don't feel it's hindered my progress. But I'm specialised and in a niche role so it's a bit different I suppose.

I think potentially it’s an off the cuff remark localised to just one manager. I think is comment has told you superficially what he thinks the reasoning is- BUT

I don’t think it affects your job now. I think the issue would be around you wanting the same arrangements for a more senior role (a promotion) maybe with more line management responsibility. Because it’s def more common for people to think that

I work in the Dept for Education, we are encouraged to work from home and most offices don't have enough desks per head count. We all hotdesk. We have invested heavily though in technology - we all have laptops and skype headsets.

I work three days a week. I don't agree with this idea that part time working means less commitment. I am as committed as anyone else, more than some full timers I could think of. I certainly work harder than a lot of people, I very rarerly take a lunch break or spend time gossiping in the kitchen. However, three days does limit opportunties I think. This week a two week job shadowing opportunity came up which I would have loved to apply for, but its full time in a different city. Last year I went on a secondment for 6 months, it just wasnt a part time role and didnt work out. If I go on a training course I lose a lot more proportionately out of my working week than a full timer. Things always seem to happen on my non working day. My capacity to take on extra work to or projects to develop competencies is limited. I can barely keep up with the workload as it is.
I don't think its discriminatory, its just the reality. Fortunately I'm not that bothered about progression, I'm five years off retirement and quite happy with my niche

Ted27 I am also in central govt and very similar. Hot desking, headsets and Skype etc. Even if I was in the office I wouldn't actually see most of the people I am actually working "with" day to day; and when I am in the office my colleagues and I are usually working on separate things, not really "team work" as such.

I agree with cherrycoke, I suspect this is the opinion or thoughts of one manager in your area as it certainly hasn't been my experience of the public sector.

I'm in the Civil Service and had a member of my team in a similar situation to you - part time, some days WFH, and had children so works only during the school term. She was promoted at the start of the year, ahead of any of the rest of us who work full-time, all year round.
As Ted says though, we're hard pressed for desk space in my department and so WFH and different ways of working is really being encouraged. Maybe this is the issue, rather than discrimination - perhaps your department still has a culture of presenteeism?

Do you answer emails?
Coz failing to do that should hold people back.

It is not fair in my opinion that teachers cannot work from home. Or nurses come to that.

Yes I am joking but it is bound to have an effect on teacher retention that some jobs are so much easier to carry out working from home. Perhaps we should pay people more who have to be front facing and do not have the flexibility to work in the way you have described.

lljkk I always answer emails promptly!!! (sometimes check them on day off too...).

I am in the CS. I have to work part time as my sons are ASD and I was told point blank the day I applied for PT I would never go any further. I went from AA to AO to EO in 27 months and was told I would go far and then didn't get promotion again. And I was blatantly asked about working hours during the boards. So I would say its the PT not working from home.

Totally weird post @mrsmuddlepies

You are very, very wrong @breaconoptimist. Working part time and from home is not showing a lack of commitment. It is just the reality of being a parent. Commitment doesn’t come into it.

Also, most public sector offices don’t even have enough desks for everyone to work from the office. Where I work we are encouraged to work from home regularly for this very reason.

The accepted wisdom is that part timers don’t progress beyond a certain grade. More responsibility requires being present more which is why usually people start to job share rather than work part time. Where I am I don’t think they would consider you for a grade A role if you were part time but job sharing would be fine.

But it is about commitment. Someone who works full time is quite literally committing more time and effort to the job than someone who works part time. I applaud anyone who thinks their family life is more important than work but you can’t really moan when someone who chooses work as their top priority reaps the rewards.

To be fair I am a parent and I work full
Time because I manage a team and feel they need a fully committed manager who is available during working hours

I agree that in such roles job sharing works best

I'm not complaining though.

Working full time hours is not the same thing as putting more effort in.

If anything part timers can be more committed because often there is more work than the contractual hours allow for. In my office its the full timers who leave promply at 5, I'm the one there until 6.30 to keep on top of things

Someone who works full time is quite literally committing more time and effort to the job than someone who works part time. Promotion isn't a reward for commitment. Promotion is about finding someone who has the ability to do the job.