AIBU to think that part time/flexible working shouldn’t hold you back in the public sector?

[MissB83]

To prevent drip feeding I work 4 days a week, 2 from home, in a public sector role. It is the kind of role that you can do at home or in the office, and most of my full time colleagues work 1 or 2 days a week from home as well. In my case I have a small child so it helps with childcare and avoiding time spent commuting instead of working.

However I was told off the cuff by a senior manager that working part time/from home would mean it took me longer to get up to speed with the team's work and would also slow down promotion prospects.

If a workplace offers a flexible working policy in the first place does this seem fair? Or is this discriminatory? (Possibly indirectly as more women are part time?)

Any thoughts?

Agreed @MereDintofPandiculation

Is that what they actually think? As in, does the senior manager think you should be denied promotion etc because you work flexibly or are they just commenting about culture more generally.

I would say working part time slows down progression but I don't think that is fair.

Either way, the civil service is one of the best places to be for working flexibly so I would go for every opportunity you can if you want to progress.

As a previously very ambitious public sector worker who got consistent Box 1 markings for performance (highest you can get) I left 10 years ago due to bullying by a senior officer. I was management grade myself. I saw people who were fairly happy to be part time. And quite senior personnel who job shared successfully.
I swore I would have nothing to do with the organisation again. However, after having DC myself, I find I'm looking at Job adverts to go back into the organisation (albeit in a quite different role but at the same level)
2 things I noticed. A. The pay structure hasn't gone up in 10 years. And B. The role I am looking at is Home Office. 79 posts are advertised. It just says 'Full Time' No apparent choice of job share / part time / part year / term time working. All of which were available options back when I worked there. It seems the Government is very small thinking and actually going backwards in terms of offering roles to good people who might otherwise have responsibilities. I'm currently working in a role I am massively over qualified for. It's shit. Minimum wage when I have a breadth of experince in many specialist and managerial fields. Just can't commit to stupid hours. It's pants. And largely targeted to Men or child free women.

@MereDintofPandiculation exactly, that's the point isn't it. Promotion should be on ability and competence to do a job. I appreciate that you'd probably have to do a job share with someone else but I think mixing up time spent at work and ability to do the job isn't too helpful? Surely the public sector should be setting an example in this respect?

Not much use having the ability to do the job if you’re not actually there to do it though is it.

@Houseofmirth66 I think you're being a bit perverse because a) I'm already there 80% of the time and b) I said that job share is something that would probably be a good option.

Obviously part time could slow you down, but flexible working will depend on your work place I suppose. Where I work home working is very common and utilised relatively equally between the sexes, our senior managers home work up to 80% of the time so it hasn't done them any harm. Some people have a weird conception of home working as being a doss, when you work in a professional environment where it's utilised rather than abused I don't think it would hold people back.

I work for a local authority. Have done for three years or so. Was part time but now full time but compressed hours so I get a Friday afternoon off. Work from home at least two days a week sometimes all week. Moved up to a senior practitioner post very quickly. Constantly being advised that I have lots of prospects (happy where I am for now though). The thing with public sector is that promotion is generally only possible into a role that is already there, unlike private sector, who have the flexibility to create roles. So if a role comes up that is full time and a promotion for you, then it is your choice whether you apply or not. Your part time flexible working history should not be held against you though should you choose to apply.

Well I’m only partly committed to this thread because I’m watching Poldark with my other eye. I would be even more perverse if it was my main priority.

I think in my company there is an unofficial cut off.
4 days week people can progress but people on less hours than that definitely don't seem to be considered for promotion.

Senior roles are always advertised as full time only.

Don't let one persons opinion put you off, not all recruiting managers feel the same.

I work 3 days a week, 2 at home and have just been promoted to a fairly senior role.

As a recruiting manager I know the dedication that part time staff can have and often think they get much more done than their full time counterparts in the same time.

@ConorMcGregorsChin you have to have worked for 26 weeks but after that you can apply for flexible working or a change of contract. But yes pay has been VERY stagnant in CS.

@Houseofmirth66 oh well, shame you can't commit to it!

@firsttimekat that’s the crux of the problem I think. Part time workers should only bring doing a proportionate amount of work based on their hours (ie 0.5 hours only 50% of the workload)

However what’s frequently happening is organisations agree that FT jobs can be done on a PT basis and don’t adjust the workload, and the PT worker (usually a woman) is getting royally screwed

@Passthecherrycoke yes I agree that is a problem, I think when you are PT you worry that people don't think you will get things done and so you work extra hard to be valued as part of a team.

From my experience, being part time is a complete hindrance to promotion unless you are applying for full time jobs. I worked FT before kids and was promoted from a grade 5 to a grade 6 to grade 7 within 2 years. I took a couple years out, returned and worked 5 years PT at grade 5 without promotion. 2 years ago I went back full time and have been promoted twice, finally back to a grade 7. It is sad but true. Definite discrimination against part timers.

@iamyourequal do you mean the other way round?! G5 is higher than G7?

Promotion isn't a reward for commitment. Promotion is about finding someone who has the ability to do the job

To be fair though, the person working full time is doing 125% of the hours and often therefore getting 25% extra experience and work done each year. So yes, I would expect full time workers on average to progress faster - and in areas where there's evidence of hours worked, it does show that ongoing practice, repetition and experience has an impact (full time surgeons Vs part time is a good example, turns out you really don't want your heart valve replaced by someone working flexi time).

Doesn't mean you should be on a mummy track, or that individual part timers shouldn't be given promotions on their merits (which in my experience of part time workers are many, as they tend to be overskilled and overworked).

But yes it should usually slow down promotion prospects.

@Passthecherrycoke I agree that can be a problem. For my team I have actively adjusted roles and am quite hot on telling people not to email on non working days etc. What I have seen though is that part time staff are more aware of the time constraints and just get on with things rather than procrastinating, they (and of course I'm generalising) tend to focus on the nub of an issue and get on with things and end up more productive.

I job share and would highly recommend it, especially if you feel pressure to work on non working days and because the partnership is around all week I don't think you get forgotten on non working days the way I know some part time staff feel they can be if doing less than 4days.

It shouldn’t mean that but it’s true. Just with the numbers a full time role will be getting more experience than you, faster.

Also the more senior roles get, the more difficult it is to do part time. Roles with crucial responsibilities often can’t be done p/t.

The reality of being a parent is that your employer doesn’t care if you are a parent or not, it depends on getting the job done. Of course working part time is going to hinder progression in some roles, suggesting otherwise is simply misleading women.

I was civil service - managed a team and worked part time (3 days a week). Only ever missed 1 promotion that I applied for, and that one I got 2nd time I applied). They made me team leader when I was part time and all the rest of the team were full time. I was once told though, that they were only happy to do that as my working days were Mon/Tue/Thur, so I never had more than 1 day off at a time. After a while I switched to 4 days short hours so I could do school pickups. Work weren't bothered either way though. So I guess in some areas of civil service there may be some individual managers who may have a problem with it, but I never saw an issue where I worked.

Hi MissB83 . In my sector (social housing) the grades go up the way. Grade 5 is an assistant and grade 7 is an Officer.

I am senior management in public service. I have no issue with staff who are part timers being promoted. However the more senior you are and depending on the job you would need to be in the office more often and working full time to fulfil the role. If you don't have an issue with this and you are qualified to do the job then you are welcome to the promotion. Unfortunately that is some of the downsides of promotion.

@iamyourequal oh I'm sorry I didn't realise that! I guess it does make more sense that way round!