Do they really get away with it?

[RobinHobb]

Not sure if this is where I should be posting. But here goes.
If my husband were to leave me, Aibu to think I literally be left holding the can with no legal recourse, vis a vis the kids? Let me clarify, I've had a very very quick look at what happens.

He doesn't have to pay anything unless I take him to court....is that right? I'd have to go back to work and take care of the children and finances as many single single parents do. But he can just walk away and live a care free child free single life? I'm astounded

We have 2dc, I quit a well paying job in the city a few years ago to look after them (he has high flying career in city), but I think I can get a full time job again, as career break hasn't been too long. Kids (2yo and 4yo) would have to go to nursery, the elder one would need to be pulled out of private school and go to local state school. I think my salary would cover this and savings would cover a rent/mortgage for a small small house.

But what does he have to pay?
I am completely blank.
He is an ok parent but sees them for a few hours on the weekend only and sleeps or works the rest of the weekend (because he has such long hours at work etc). I'd probably suggest an arrangement for access along the lines of what I've seen discussed on Mumsnet of eow and half the summer holidays.

How does this work? I'm a bit lost.
Please don't be too harsh in your responses, i am trying to make sense of things

Are you married as that is the first thing? How many assets do you own? You don't have to go to court to divide it. It's better not too as money gets used in fees but for some people they can't agree so they have to.

If you are not married he would pay approximately 20 percent of his salary for 2 children. You don't have to go to court for this bit can involve CMEC the old CSA if he refuses to pay. A problem could arrive if he is SA or on PAYE.

Not on PAYE I meant.

you don't need to take him to court, he has to pay.

First stage you try and come to an agreement between yourselves. If you can't or he isn't great about paying then you take it to the cms.

There is a calculator avaliable somewhere probably on the cms website. The minimum he needs to pay depends on how many children, how much he earns and how many overnights he has.

Depending on how much you earn you might be entitled to some help through universal credit for nursery fees and afterschool club. The term after they turn 3 your 2 year old should get 30 hours in nursery, 15 if you aren't.

Yes but in reality, the CMS aren't particularly shit hot on enforcing maintenance are they? It unfortunately is the reality that absent fathers can just get away scot free.

We are married 4 years.
He owns the house; the mortgage is 50% paid off. We have some savings which I imagine we would split in some way. Dd1 has already 15 hours free at preschool, if this becomes 30 hours as a single parent that's v helpful although doesn't kick in for dd2 for a year or so.
I don't think I'd qualify for any benefits, based on my last work salary, but my last job had long hours so I'd be paying a bit for wrap around care after school, or holidays etc.
But he does have to pay something, I've had a look at the cms calculator (thank you!)
Just that it's hard to enforce. And that aside from throwing money at it (he has a huge salary which is good) he doesn't have to be involved at all....

Because you're married, there would be a financial settlement in the divorce. This would take account of the fact that you had a high earning career which you have missed earning from to look after the children, which means that you would likely get more than 50% of any assets. You'd also be entitled to some of his pension to redress the balance since you've been unable to pay into yours while doing most of the childcare these last 4 years whereas he's continued earning unaffected by the children due to your financial sacrifice.

You don't have to go to court for maintenance, you can apply to CMS.

He doesn't 'own' the house, you're married. It's possible you could stay in it.

You could also walk away and leave the children and not see them if you wanted to. He could then choose to get a nanny etc.
No parent is 'forced' to parent unfortunately

Why not just give him the kids 50% of the time? That way he has no choice but to pay for them.

Is he self employed or on PAYE as it is easier to enforce on PAYE.

Do you think he would think it was ok to not pay maintenance? I can see why you want to separate.

Because you are married. You will be entitled to some of the assets.

Because it's a relatively short marriage it may not be 50% if he had it before. But it also could be 50%.

Theres no right to stay in the house any longer because you have kids. And yes you would be expected to go back to work.

Depending on his earnings and lots of other factors, you may get spousal support for a period of time. To allow you to get back into and build your career.

He would have to pay child maintenance. However if hevis self employed it's extremely difficult. Its easier if he is employed but if he wants to be a shit he can make that difficult.

The details matters and no one on here could decide.

Personally, having a mother that got divorced twice having given up work. I decided to not give up work. When I left exh I was grateful. I didnt want to stay in the house. We sold it and bought alone, which I could do because I was longterm employed.

Not saying it's wrong to be a sahp. But divorce, illness of the wage earner and things like that should always be part of the decision making.

My advice would be to get back to work asap, if you think your marriage is going down the pan. Divorce is awful. Bot having to worry about finances makes it so much easier.

Is this hypothetical?

Are you planning to leave him / ask him to leave, or are you just worrying what happens if he leaves you?

And no he could just walk away and not see the kids. It's a dick move. But people do it. Men mostly, but as I have got older I have realised alot more women do it that I thought.

My dps mother walked out when his father was working away. Left him and his brother in the house to fend for themselves for 3 days at the age of 2 & 4. Dps dad came home and found them starving, faeces everywhere (the 4 year old had tried to keep the younger clean but couldnt.).

Technically, you could also walk away from your kids and put them up for adoption. I know you wont do that

There is no way to force a parent to actually step up and be a parent.

No no I don't want to leave the kids. It's just that as primary parent I'll be doing the middle of the night teething and trips to doctors and all the things... I'm not explaining this well. It's hard to do full time work and be a parent on your own basically. But he won't have to deal with any of that. Just carry on. Anyway this is by the by, it is what it is.
He works full time in the city earning a big salary. He's not self employed. He won't refuse to pay child maintenance I don't think but I don't know how much is reasonable/legal minimum.
The house was bought the year we got married. Only his name on the mortgage and he paid the deposit out of his savings. I've only been out of work 3 years so I don't want his money; I just feel like he gets the better end of the deal. He sees them once a week, pays some money and I deal with all the rest good and bad both.

It doesn't have to be that way @RobinHobb but unfortunately 99% of the time is seems to be.

I know some feminist will come on here saying that I'm talking rubbish but society has ingrained in us that once kids have been born the man goes to work full time & the women stays at home to raise them. That is mainly because of breastfeeding (I know that it can be expressed but that are many many posts on here from women saying that they dont want to) and the natural bonding that happens between a mother & her child. Also, women are more maternal & are brought up (rightly or wrongly) to be homemakers. Again, you only need to read on here the different threads about the unequal split of household chores & why men don't do their fair share around the house.

In your situation OP I can't see your dh doing 50/50 care & so unfortunately it will land on you to do all the day to day stuff, but as long as you think he will be reasonable I don't see why you 2 canf agree on him giving you more than the CMS minimum. He's in a good job so hopefully should be able to pay you a bit more. This probably won't compensate you for all the midnight puke clean-ups & daily organising of doctor & dentist appointments.....but he wont get to see them growing up or the daily chats about their school days & what they've learnt that day. I know because I was that man. I divorced 9 years ago when my 3 were just 6,5 &3. I had them eow & also saw them during the week as I lived fairly close & could pop in on my way home. But I see now I missed so much of their formative years & growing up. I gave my ex £600pm & also helped with extras such as school trips uniforms. Last xmas they fell out with their mum & now all live with me full time. They hardly ever see her & not once stayed with her in the past 9 months. She also pays me no maintenance at all.(see my thread about 2 months ago). I now get to hear about the minutiae of their lives & I am so much more involved.

@hadthesnip2
Thank you for the post and also the honesty. I know I too will be/should be stomped on for saying this but when women becomes mothers they lose a lot of their "equality" with men. One person does have to take care of young kids and due to bf and maternal instinct that person is usually the mum. This then becomes the default. In 15 years of working in the city in a client facing position I have never once come across a male colleague saying they had to leave mid meeting to do a nursery run or be giving a baby a bath while running a conference call. Saw mums doing it though.
Anyway yes I got married 4 years ago and my husband effed off back to the 50s.
It's not a hypothetical post. We may be headed there and I need to know what I should be planning I guess

I'm not explaining this well. It's hard to do full time work and be a parent on your own basically. But he won't have to deal with any of that. Just carry on. Anyway this is by the by, it is what it is.

I do this. So trust me, I know.

It doesnt have to be this way. Sometimes it is. My ech was a total banker. But did always do half childcare and days off.

As women we have to choose. Stop working or go back. And if we go back we need to ensure that the other parent does their half. Easier said than done.

Although I do it all now and work fulltime in a professional career and fund it far easier than I did living with him. He slowly backed out of the kids lives. They became happier at mine, rather than his and wanted to be with me more and more so he engaged with them less and less.

Honestly, he is a controlling bastard and we are all happier for it just being me.

A wanker. Not a banker

www.gov.uk/calculate-your-child-maintenance

Child maintenance calculator . There is a cap of £392 a week and so for a high earner you would have to have an agreement or go to court- and you MAY be awarded more. As the child has just started independent school the fees/lifestyle might not be taken into account.

For £100,000 it would be £272 a week and by £150,000 it is £392. It will go down when he has more children.

But with 50/50 care you would get no maintenance. How will he look after them every other week?

You would be better to go back to work now- get a more equal life back and then re calibrate the relationship. If that doesn't work then you can split up.

@BloomingHydrangea
Thank you
I'm looking at this now
He works very long hours and he isn't interested or engaged in doing any of the day to day care. I actually can't remember the last time he changed a nappy... maybe never for dd2. With Dd1 I still had some fight left in me.

But I was thinking he has them for the day every other weekend. He's never spent more than 2-3 hours alone with them without me so I think that's doable for all, including the kids (I haven't enabled this btw but as a pp said you can't force someone to parent, and attempts to leave them with him have never taken off - emergency work/call that baby isn't well etc)

So that would be the childcare split that I'll use in the calculation above.

Will start thinking about work. I've never wanted to leave kids in nursery and had wanted to wait till dd2 was in preschool next year

Go back to work.

Equal split of the childcare costs- you will get 30 hours from term after 3rd birthday but a nanny may be a better option?

Then set a timetable of who hands over to/takes over from the nanny/childcare each day.

Weekend timetable for household tasks etc

@Wishihad
There is a part of me that wonders now even with full time work and single parenting would I feel happy and relieved i don't have to deal with his nonsense any more....
but then it's hard being a single parent. And things aren't done with us yet, and kids need both parents etc etc so it's my duty to try longer and harder before giving up.

Did you live together before you got married OP? That period might be taken into consideration when deciding on a division of assets.

The welfare of the DC is the primary concern of the court when divorcing. So if the court decides that you and DC should stay in former matrimonial home until youngest is 18 then DH will have to put up with it. Court could decide house needs to be sold but you may actually get more than 50% of equity if you need it to house yourself and DC.

There are so many variables....

In your shoes I would see a local family solicitor just for an advice session.

Usually he will have to pay 20% of his NET income for two or more DC. With CMS there is a cap, but you may get more just as part of the general divorce. Is he the sort who wouldn't want to look bad?

Also, you need to consider savings and pensions. You may have entitlement for part of these.

Get lawyered up. You don't need to act on the advice until/unless you want to.

Re XH involvement with DC. Yeah, many fathers decide they will just fuck off and send the money. Or they do the Disney Dad stuff. You absolutely cannot control this.

If you are thinking of divorcing seriously then I absolutely would not get a FT job now or increase hours. You can do that AFTER your settlement.

@RobinHobb I went back and further for ages. Ideally, of course kids should have both parents. But if one parent is a total shit, they are far happier with one.

My son is 8 and his school can not believe how much he has changed, how happy he is, more laid back, more engaged and progressed amazingly since the split. My daughter is 15 now and doing fantastic.

It was hard at first. Now its absolute bliss. Hard work. But bliss.

@BloomingHydrangea
Maybe this is how it needs to be to restore us to some sort of equality. But I'm wary of the "I'm more busy, can you do pick up today", and the my job is more important because it pays much more etc etc that will come from him and the only thing that happens is I end up working full time and doing full time child care on weekends and evenings.
I mean how do you enforce a timetable? If he refuses to do pick up because he's at a big meeting etc I can't exactly leave them at nursery can I....