Do they really get away with it?

[RobinHobb]

Not sure if this is where I should be posting. But here goes.
If my husband were to leave me, Aibu to think I literally be left holding the can with no legal recourse, vis a vis the kids? Let me clarify, I've had a very very quick look at what happens.

He doesn't have to pay anything unless I take him to court....is that right? I'd have to go back to work and take care of the children and finances as many single single parents do. But he can just walk away and live a care free child free single life? I'm astounded

We have 2dc, I quit a well paying job in the city a few years ago to look after them (he has high flying career in city), but I think I can get a full time job again, as career break hasn't been too long. Kids (2yo and 4yo) would have to go to nursery, the elder one would need to be pulled out of private school and go to local state school. I think my salary would cover this and savings would cover a rent/mortgage for a small small house.

But what does he have to pay?
I am completely blank.
He is an ok parent but sees them for a few hours on the weekend only and sleeps or works the rest of the weekend (because he has such long hours at work etc). I'd probably suggest an arrangement for access along the lines of what I've seen discussed on Mumsnet of eow and half the summer holidays.

How does this work? I'm a bit lost.
Please don't be too harsh in your responses, i am trying to make sense of things

@bluebeck
Ok this is sounding like very good advice. I'm usually the sort who will consult an expert so a sit down with a lawyer is a good step. I do feel like going back to full time work might be the "right" thing to do but maybe not the "smart" one if this marriage is circling the drain...

@bluebeck
Sorry I didn't answer the question, we didn't live together officially. I kept my flat in London as it was close to the office and we used to do a mix of some nights at his and some at mine etc for a period of 2 years before we got married and then I changed my address etc on my docs

This is one of my reasons for not having children. The majority of the childcare, housework etc falls on women and they also have the biggest impact on their career and freedom. In the event of a split they are normally the resident parent that deals with the day to day drudgery while the man (if he chooses too, some disappear completely) gets to dip in and out being the fun dad!

@Skittlenommer
Didn't expect it to happen to me
He only fucked off to the 50s after kids

One person does have to take care of young kids and due to bf and maternal instinct that person is usually the mum.

Usually, yes. Although My DB found himself taking on the caring role for his autistic son when his DW walked out (with every valuable and penny they had).

I would have a meeting with a divorce lawyer now, so you are clear about your specific options. But you would have to go back to work or be very poor compared to what you are currently.

Like your user name RobinHobb I'm a fan too, have read every one of her books more than once.

As others have said, don't go back to work until all the finances are sorted. It can be very stressful juggling a job, children and negotiations all at the same time. I was so stressed I had a car accident at one stage. You need a bit of space to organise it all. If you have a new job you won't want to take time off for seeing solicitors.

You don’t have to be solely in charge, you could get some paid help at the weekends to entertain the DC’s so you get some time/space. If he’s not around he should be amenable to solving the problem by paying for what you need.

@Juells
@Jaxhog
Yes finding a good family solicitor is on the cards now. Will see if I can find someone local to me next week and just have a preliminary chat about what happens
Thank you for the advice
I do think full time work will have to happen but after any divorce, which will take enough time. The kids are older now (2 and 4yo) and while I don't want to leave them to go to work it doesn't feel as bad as leaving them when a year younger. Not keen on it I admit but I'll need to support the three of us.

Hi @RobinHobb

Sorry you’re having a tough time. First thing I would say is does he know you feel like this? People often have differing expectations of what it means for the wife to give up work - does he think the deal is the kids are your responsibility 100%? If he knows that’s not the agreement I would try training him - I know you shouldn’t have to but you owe your kids the effort imo - eg set him up with an activity he does with a child like swimming lessons, play together with the kids, meet up with his brother / mates + kids. A lot of guys are crap with teenies but do grow / get trained into it.

I am also in the City world, a few years ahead of you on kids’ ages and have seen this dynamic play out in two ways:

1. Divorce + 2x full time City jobs - best system seems to be a nanny who moves between the two houses, gives continuity plus the type of care needed to do those sort of jobs. You can’t force him to parent but he would prob step up with a nanny - you might just be giving your kids to the nanny for 50% of the time though. Two houses + nanny + potentially second families is expensive though and may mean a lot of financial pressure for you and lifestyle cost eg no private school.

2. Stay together even if he’s not the dad you wish he was - your kids get what there is of him, there’s money there to buy help for you eg Sat morning so you can go to the gym and for lunch with your friends or whatever, you can go back to work if you choose but don’t have to / can go pt etc, lifestyle benefits, your husband may have other redeeming features - you did marry him after all.

Only you can decide what’s best for your family - good luck

You would really need specialist legal advice.

Yes you're married but as it's less than 5 years than can be a point against you, you say he owns the house, assets in a marriage are generally jointly owned for the purposes of divorce settlements but it depends on if he's take steps to protect it I believe.

Cm - there's the cms calculator will give you the frankly woefully low calculation he's supposed to pay as a minimum, the reality is cms are not particularly pro-active in pursuing child maintenance and men like your dh (high powered high salary job) tend to be very well versed in making it APPEAR they earn much less than they do IF they pay at all.

My ex - bog standard army squaddie - led csa and then cms a merry dance! Knew just how to dodge ending up in court while never paying what he should have!

Don't rely on getting a good settlement or cm. Instead get back into the workplace ASAP and build your own income and learn how to run a frugal budget.

"He won't refuse to pay child maintenance I don't think" DO NOT rely on that! This board is FILLED with mners who never thought their now ex would "see the kids without" who have had a very rude awakening on that score! Myself included! I was SO naive and FAR too trusting! My ex emptied the joint account DAYS after we split leaving me penniless (which he KNEW) with a toddler to feed!

If you ever do plan to leave, organise yourself beforehand.

See a good solicitor (get a recommendation they are NOT all the same quality), get your own completely separate bank account if you don't already, arrange for anything you might get like child benefit to go into that account, safely store important paperwork like birth and marriage cert, passports outside the house, get copies/evidence of all financial paperwork, check what childcare facilities are available to you, possibly get the kids on any waiting lists, brush up your cv and start looking to see what's available and your likely chances of getting a job (it's very much changed even in the last few years), look into alternative accommodation, do a potential budget...

I'm sure there's more.

You could of course try a last ditch attempt at getting him to pull his weight but I don't fancy your chances!

@PrincessLouis
Thank you for the post and the advice. I'm taking it all in and mulling. It's really helpful re nanny X 2 city jobs because I hadn't thought of that option at all even though we had a nanny when i went back to work for a while after Dd1. But a nanny going back and forth would help immensely with all of that.

It's far away though in the future - but I think my husband would rather I took care of them the whole time (although he won't ever admit it) and didn't trouble him except for him to play with them a couple of hours on the weekend, which is what he does right now. He has no clue what goes on in the day to day, and I think he prefers it that way. I too worked FT after Dd1 and I wasn't like that. But if he had the nanny on his days at least I would know they were being taken care of while he slept/worked/went out.

Re option 2, to stay and throw money at the problem, this is how we have been dealing with it and yes there are a lot of life style benefits for me. But aside from his inability to be the dad I wanted him to be he has other issues and we are generally having communication issues which makes me think that my resentment at his attitude towards parenting + his general other dick like behaviour means I won't be able to suck it up the way I've been doing so far...
And hence the post

@Graphista
Legal advice it is....
Going to try not to be naive re trusting him. But I do want an amicable end to it all, and I certainly don't want his money. Frankly I had a mortgage before him, had a v good six figure salary, if I can get another job and a bit of help towards child care costs - not masses - because of 30 free hours and school - me and DC will be ok. A bit more frugal as he earns mega money right now, but we will be fine.
I take on board advice re budgeting etc. Will have a think and look around for lawyers. We are near London so there are options.
Thank you

You'll have plenty of options being near London.

I sometimes get flamed on such threads for being overly negative, scaremongering, man hating, advising unfair actions against the ex...

Blah blah blah...

16 years ago when I split from my ex I had NO CLUE how it all worked - divorce, contact arrangements, cm, benefits...

It's been a Fucking steep learning curve!

Plus while I was among the first of my friends to go through a divorce, I certainly wasn't the last and of course I went on to meet, as we tend to in life, others with the same or even worse experiences.

I've met people who's exes have basically robbed them! Taking tech, furniture, cars, caravans, even heirloom family jewellery!

I know of one lady who's ex manipulated things so she was effectively thrown out of the business they had built together without a penny for the decades of work she had put in. Damn near broke her!

And it's not man hating.

Because while it's less common for the woman to be the one that becomes the nrp, ime when they are they can be just as bad as the men in that position wrt abandoning kids, begrudging paying cm, misappropriating assets etc

It's about trying to ensure the best outcome for your kids and yourself. which as a single parent is damn hard!

I was so so naive at the start of it all, I am unbelievably glad things like mn now exist/are well known to help those facing this now and I've certainly impressed upon dd the importance of getting married before having kids and always having your own income if at all possible.

If I'd not been married I couldn't have got the settlement I did (which included ex having to give me half the money he'd taken out that account!) which wasn't a huge amount (less than £10k) but it all helps when you consider I also pretty much instantly became homeless (due to him being army and we were living in service Accom) and the council had no legal obligation to help us find somewhere to live because we had no "family connection to the area" a difficulty peculiar to many military stbexw.

We were very fortunate to find a rental JUST as we were about to become actually, at best sofa surfing, homeless. Yep with a toddler - ex couldn't have cared less!

See on these boards ALL THE TIME.

"MY husband would never do that"
"He'd never see the kids without"
"Your ex MUST have given clues in his behaviour/things he said that he could be like this"
"Surely the bank wouldn't let someone do that"

My ex gave 0 clue he could behave like this...until he did!

He was raised by a father who was a divorcé who treated his ex wife and DC from that marriage very well, he had always been critical of deadbeat dads prior to us splitting, even losing friendships over it, even when we argued and I'd say how vulnerable I felt as a trailing spouse and then also sahm, he'd say no matter what he'd never do "that" to dd, even if he was mad as hell at me.

All went out the window as soon as we split.

An mner (who may have been quoting someone else) said

You don't really know someone until you divorce them

And it's so true!

I've also been shocked at (and said so to them!) friends who have behaved badly in the aftermath of a split. In my opinion true friends call you on your bullshit! If they rethought and got their heads on straight all well and good, but I've lost friends due to I've been disgusted how they've treated their ex and their kids, that's not the kind of people I wanna be friends with.

Anyway, all that basically just means I wish you well, hope you are well prepared if you do decide to split.