AIBU to leave council flat for private renting? 5 in a 1 bed flat.

[Hereforhelp]

Hi. So I was housed a 1 bedroom flat with council when I was 7 months pregnant with my first child. Now theres 5 of us in the same flat me, dh, dd 5 yrs, DS1 3 yrs and DS2 4 months old.

Dh and I are both employed, him full time me part time (currently on maternity leave) & don’t receive any sort of benefit.

The plan for our family increase was to return flat and private rent somewhere bigger but now private rent have massively increased £300 more than it was 2 years ago 😅 so that plan failed, leaving us cramped, in a 1 bed 🙃

We’ve tried to talk to council but according to law we’re not overcrowded as living room could be used as bedroom too and according to my room measurements each room can fit up to 2 adults (that’ll be 4 kids in each bedroom as they count a kid as half an adult).

Shall I hang in here and hopefully be rehoused after couple of years or stretch our finances and rent privately? People are calling me mad to be thinking of giving up a council home & I’d hate to give up the security of our home tbh but we are so desperate!!

Has anyone here left a council home for private renting? Or has anyone got a success story of getting rehoused due to overcrowding?

Well op has brought out the self righteous lot!! It's actually sickening. Sorry if it has been said before but have you looked into shared equity properties,(different from shared ownership obviously). I'm thinking you should sit tight for the time being and try put some money by. Sounds like you manage ok for now. Then when you really have to move you may have more options with money put by.

@PencilsInSpace
*She's asking about the housing allocations policy document for your local authority!

• Every local authority has to have one*

Yes, I was referring to the actual allocation policy of my local council from their website, not information from shelter.

You've also interpreted the space standard of statutory overcrowding incorrectly. There are two methods of calculating it based on number of rooms or floor space. If you are overcrowded by either method then you are statutorily overcrowded.

Yes, I mentioned space standard only before room standard because according to room standard I am not overcrowded coz all kids under 10 aren’t counted. But space standard after my son turns 1 coz he is a half unit we will be 3.5 in one bedroom which is deemed overcrowded but my rooms are big above 110sq ft so therefore I will not be overcrowded because I can fit 2 adults in there (I.e 4 kids as they’re half unit)
That’s what I said/trying to say.

What is your combined income? If you are both working and not receiving any benefits, you should be able to manage rent.
We receive child benefit as our earnings are not high and we have bought a four bedroom house (mortgaged of course) and we don’t live in a cheap area. We rented previously at £1500 pcm. If you are not eligible for any child benefit, surely you can afford rent?
it may be fairer on others who need housing urgently for you to move into privately rented now.

I do know a few colleagues in long term private lets where the rent has not been increased for years but the landlords are not good at doing any maintenance or repairs & the properties are really run down.
My NDNs with 2 kids pay a high rent (£900 for 2 bed house) & have decorated the house themselves & really made it a home but I have a horrible feeling the LL will retire & want to sell soon.

Hmm. I think if it was me I'd keep the council flat & do two things... try first to save for a deposit towards a small property in a cheaper area such as further north (a friend earning less than £20k was priced out of the South & bought a house in a pretty village in Yorkshire recently.
Also look at being put on the list for a bigger property / home swap as other posters are suggesting.

Also Once Brexit is over (or before) we may have a change in govt who may bring on legislation to make private renting more secure for tenants, who knows??

Yes you are being unreasonable to leave your secure housing for private rent.
You could get lucky and get a professional landlord and still be in the same place for 10 years if that is what you want.
Or you could get a joker of a landlord,who does not know the legalities of the business he is running.Fails to pay the mortgage on the place even though you are paying rent,tells you he is in it for the long term,but then when he/she realises the change in the tax relief for landlords decides to sell.So you go to the trouble of having to move,and the cost etc,only to be there 18 months/couple of years to get evicted again.Then you might have the problem of not getting private rented in the area you need,so you then have to move the children from their schools.If you were very unlucky you could be moving every year.
And lol at the people on this thread who say go to the press,CAB etc.
Where have you been this past decade and longer.Did you not know that being told to use a lounge as a bedroom is told by several councils.Did you not know that some people are being told they have to move to a cheaper area to be housed.If you refuse after being given several options you are off the list and on your own.Did you not know that families are being housed in bed and breakfast.I know of one single person in their 50’s with cancer who was told we have no obligation to house you come back in a year,for their consultant to say without a roof over their head we cannot do the operation.If it had depended on the council,they would have been dead before they got housed.Obviously some areas are more difficult than others.
OP I would wait,would it be possible for you to put money away for a deposit to buy.

That is absolutely the point of social housing, to help people move onto something better

@Willowsauntie You really need to do some reading up on the subject of social housing , the history of it and how we got where we are today.

Sorry if it’s already been mentioned, I haven’t read the whole thread. But have you considered buying your council flat? I know it’s not great short term but if you can buy it at a reduced rate & use the profit to up size when you can sell (which I believe is 3 years after you buy) I’d do that. I wouldn’t give up a council flat in today’s climate, you have to make it work for you OP. Plus if you buy would putting up a plaster board wall in the bedroom/lounge work for a few years? In the mean time you can hang this on your wall

Combined 35k isn't a huge wage (I am the sole earner on less btw) and therefore possibly not in the 'absolutely could afford private rent bracket' especially if circumstances led to only one wage / rents are high.

OP some of us posters are trying to help. Overcrowding isn't the only reason for priority, and it does seem unusual that you are seemingly barred from joining your local register at all. By saying read the local allocations policy I was only trying to make sure you had been given the correct info.

Posters telling you that your life is idyllic is as unhelpful as posters telling you to not have had child number 3. Others of us are trying to help you work out the best way forwards.

And what's appalling is those urging her to stay. There are families in bedsits, people who genuinely can't afford to private rent, and there are posters on here urging someone who can to say fuck them, you cling onto your council house, fuck those that need it when you dont

And whats appalling is posters who are happy to pretend they care about those who need a home when they can use them to pit tenants against each other but dont give a fuck the rest of the time.

You have found the actual housing allocation policy document?

What does it say exactly about who is eligible to join the list?
What does it say exactly about how reasonable priority is given?
Which definition of overcrowding does it use?

You're still wrong about the overcrowding definitions. They are confusing!

Room standard says basically you can cram as many people as you like into one room as long as they are the same sex or under 10. This is useful for those who have enough space but only if children over the age of 10 share with the opposite sex.

Space standard is calculated either on number of people per room or on floor space and whichever comes out as the lowest number of people allowed in the property is the one you use. The floor space way of calculating is useful for those who have enough rooms but they are too small to accommodate more than one person.

If you meet either the room standard or the space standard of overcrowding you are statutorily overcrowded.

When your youngest turns 1 you will meet the space standard based on the people per room method of calculation. It doesn't matter how big the rooms are.

The info on the shelter law site is just a reader-friendly outline of housing law. It's well worth a browse.

The thing is, even in this state, you'll still be allocated a 2-bedroom. Then it will be too small for your needs in a while and you'll be back to where you are now.

Life is really short, btw.

Why live miserably when you don't absolutely have to? That makes no sense.

Find a place to live that's more suited to the family you chose to have rather than hanging round expecting the government to sort it for you.

The thing is, even in this state, you'll still be allocated a 2-bedroom.

Not if her local authority use the non-statutory 'bedroom standard' which most do because it's strongly advised in the government's guidance to local authorities:

Overcrowding
4.8 The Secretary of State takes the view that the bedroom standard is an appropriate measure of overcrowding for allocation purposes, and recommends that all housing authorities should adopt this as a minimum. The bedroom standard allocates a separate bedroom to each:

• married or cohabiting couple
• adult aged 21 years or more
• pair of adolescents aged 10-20 years of the same sex
• pair of children aged under 10 years regardless of sex

www.gov.uk/government/publications/allocation-of-accommodation-guidance-for-local-housing-authorities-in-england

Open pic from right to left

@PencilsInSpace

When your youngest turns 1 you will meet the space standard based on the people per room method of calculation. It doesn't matter how big the rooms are.

Maybe I haven’t gotten a clear understanding of it, but does it not say under space standard that if a room is bigger than 110 sq ft 2 people can fit in? I’m confused lol it is worded weirdly.
I’ve been trying to find a loophole somewhere in the policy as one of the posters mentioned housing does not give you the full information they cut you short and dismiss you.

There is a shortage of social housing because we sold a lot of it off via Right to Buy at the same time as we stopped/slowed building it

Not to mention whats been lost under regeneration schemes and stock transfer.

I don’t get it. I have two kids, would love a third but I can’t afford a bigger place so I can’t have a third child. You’re responsible for your kids. Since you can afford to privately rent then yes, privately rent! Give up your flat for someone who actually needs it and put a more suitable roof over your kids’ heads.

I sort of feel like the whole being overcrowded thing is a bit of a red herring.

Even if when your son turns 1, you are classified as overcrowded. It would take absolutely ages for you to get a bigger home.

Your oldest child is 5 and so could even be 10 by the time you get a bigger home, depending on the area you live in.

That’s honestly not at all fair on your children. I would move home and privately rent so that they can have more space and be able to invite friends over & not feel ashamed when they visit their friends houses. Obviously they may never feel these things but one bedroom and three kids is not responsible.

I’d move.

wonder what would happen if all tenants in social housing stayed there because it's a secure tenancy. What then

Thats what SH was always suppossed to be. Well im childfree by choice DH and i have been in our one bedroom flat for 25 years. We have always been low income But ive never wanted to be a parent

But im sure someone will use mental gymnastics to work out a way that im still in the wrong.
And that will PROVE its just about bashing SH tenants.

OP on a practical note I work with a family who have 6 dc ranging from 14 to 9 months. They got a ground floor 2 bed 1 box flat when they had 2 dc and although they are overcrowded have rejected 3/4 bed offers as they want to stay in the same (very desirable) area. They have made great use of available space, 2 sets of triple bunks, storage shelves and hooks on every available wall space. They covered over a section of the back yard with perspex and use that as a storage area for kitchen stuff as their kitchen is tiny. The dad built streamline wardrobes the length of the hall so that the bedrooms are as spacious as possible. The last time I saw them they were thinking of installing a Murphy bed in the living room for the parents so that the 2 teens could move into their bedroom. The older children are very frustrated at the cramped living conditions but the parents feel the location (equivalent to Zone 1) is worth the hassle.

Maybe I haven’t gotten a clear understanding of it, but does it not say under space standard that if a room is bigger than 110 sq ft 2 people can fit in? I’m confused lol it is worded weirdly.

Yes it is worded weirdly and it is confusing. The crucial wording is where it says 'whichever is the less of' in the housing act 1985:

(3)The permitted number of persons in relation to a dwelling is whichever is the less of —

(a)the number specified in Table I in relation to the number of rooms in the dwelling available as sleeping accommodation, and

You have 2 rooms so the number allowed under (a) is 3 people.

(b)the aggregate for all such rooms in the dwelling of the numbers specified in column 2 of Table II in relation to each room of the floor area specified in column 1

Both your rooms are over the size limit to accommodate 2 people so the number allowed under (b) is 4 people.

'Whichever is the less of' means you go with (a) and your property is overcrowded if there are more than 3 people living there. When your youngest child reaches the age of 1 you have 3.5 people living there and so are overcrowded.

There are several strands to this:

First the OP's actual question - instant reaction do not give up the LA tenancy

Secondly - having 3 kids in a one bed flat, not a great idea

Thirdly OP is living in the Midlands and has stated a family income of 35k. Despite my knee jerk reaction in point 1 I think it's only morally right that they private rent to get a bigger home.

Find a place to live that's more suited to the family you chose to have rather than hanging round expecting the government to sort it for you.

She isn't hanging round, and the government won't be sorting it. Most social housing is with housing associations and are not the council/government.

@PencilsInSpace
Thanks for that, much appreciated.
However
You have 2 rooms so the number allowed under (a) is 3 people.

Section a also says children under 10 don’t count at all? So in that case there’s only 2 of us in here coz our kids don’t count, right?

No, that's the room standard.

You're dealing with the space standard, even though you're counting rooms (I realise this is confusing).

Under the space standard children under 1 are not counted, children between 1 and 10 count as 1/2 a person.