AIBU to leave council flat for private renting? 5 in a 1 bed flat.

[Hereforhelp]

Hi. So I was housed a 1 bedroom flat with council when I was 7 months pregnant with my first child. Now theres 5 of us in the same flat me, dh, dd 5 yrs, DS1 3 yrs and DS2 4 months old.

Dh and I are both employed, him full time me part time (currently on maternity leave) & don’t receive any sort of benefit.

The plan for our family increase was to return flat and private rent somewhere bigger but now private rent have massively increased £300 more than it was 2 years ago 😅 so that plan failed, leaving us cramped, in a 1 bed 🙃

We’ve tried to talk to council but according to law we’re not overcrowded as living room could be used as bedroom too and according to my room measurements each room can fit up to 2 adults (that’ll be 4 kids in each bedroom as they count a kid as half an adult).

Shall I hang in here and hopefully be rehoused after couple of years or stretch our finances and rent privately? People are calling me mad to be thinking of giving up a council home & I’d hate to give up the security of our home tbh but we are so desperate!!

Has anyone here left a council home for private renting? Or has anyone got a success story of getting rehoused due to overcrowding?

I am not gonna give you the satisfaction you very much crave for, you’ve been coming at me back and forth & even repeating yourself while at it. So you do your thing.

I didn't address you at all in my previous two posts, and if I've repeated myself, it's because you haven't actually responded to anything I've said, only telling me to go away or whatever.

I'm not 'craving' anything because I don't have an unhealthy attachment to some random poster on the internet, and I dont need you to admit anything because we both know the truth already. However, I clearly seem to have touched a nerve or insecurity by suggesting that your plan was poor so I'll bow out now.

OP have not read full thread and I prob won't ..I am in the Midlands too and just wanted to say if you can hang on do not give up a secure tenancy they are beco.ing very rare indeed. We privately rented and in the last place had been there 2 years but were served a Section 21..long story but most likely a revenge eviction . We are ectremely lucky to have a secure tenancy and I have no intention of giving it up unless I win lottery. Oh and in case anyone is wondering I have a partner of 20 years 2 children and I work as a nurse.Good luck OP.

Please excuse typos!

@TacoLover

I'm not 'craving' anything because I don't have an unhealthy attachment to some random poster on the internet,.

LOL, I beg to differ! 😂 You seem weirdly obsessed with the OP, and haven't stopped poking and needling her since you came onto the thread.

Hopefully she has the sense to just ignore you now - AND the others like you.

We will probably look to downsize in a decade though.

Anyone who has 3 children in a 1 bedroom flat has not made good choices. There really is no way to argue that they have. And the council have made it clear that she wot be getting a bigger place from them so she will need to try and swap, which isn't proving to be easy. So that's 5 of them stuck in a 1 bedroom, and with 3 kids to support they don't have much hope of saving a deposit and owning their own home. That means a life of renting; which is just paying thousands of pounds for no real return. If they want to stay in council properties then they will need to wait several years before they will be considered overcrowded, or hope for a miracle swap. And people on here are cheering her on and acting like she's made responsible decisions. Sure she has.

Very nice interesting insightful FASCINATING post @TheInvestigator Did you think of all that by yourself?!

Sadly. at LEAST a dozen people have already come out with this little gem 'oooh you're SO irresponsible!'

Do try to keep up.

TheInvestigator

If they want to stay in council properties then they will need to wait several years before they will be considered overcrowded, or hope for a miracle swap.

I am gonna file this under 'no shit sherlock.'

If they want to stay in council properties then they will need to wait several years before they will be considered overcrowded

Eight months.

Eh? She'll be able to get on the housing list in 8 months when her youngest turns 1. She could possibly get on the list now if she could find the allocations policy document

Sorry, I misunderstood. I thought she was saying the children can share if they are under 10.

And it is likely that they will be considered overcrowded by one bedroom, which may well get them on the register, but still won't guarantee a priority high enough to move any time soon.

If the OP doesn't want to move to a private rent she will have to make the best of what she has. It is what it is - but it is by no means idyllic and wonderful as some posters are suggesting. 3 children in one bedroom in the grand scheme isn't a huge issue, the lack of a 2nd bedroom is.

OP You do seem to be ducking the question but have you gone through the allocation policy with a fine tooth comb? Failing that move up North

The answer is obvious - keep having children and when you reach double figures the council may move you into a 2 bed flat.

It just seems so illogical to me to have 3 children while living in a one bed flat and I have to agree with @T0getherindreams who wins post of the year

There are two different measures of statutory overcrowding - the room standard and the space standard. You only have to meet one of them to be considered statutorily overcrowded.

Good explanation here:

england.shelter.org.uk/legal/housing_conditions/overcrowding/what_is_overcrowding

OP's family will be statutorily overcrowded when her youngest child turns 1 because they will be 3.5 people in 2 rooms and the limit is 3 people for a property that size.

As well as the two statutory overcrowding standards there is the non-statutory 'bedroom standard', which I think this family already meet because there is no lower age limit on the children who are counted:

Reasonable preference categories

A local authority's allocation scheme must give reasonable preference to applicants who fall into the following categories:
...
- people occupying insanitary or overcrowded housing, or otherwise living in unsatisfactory housing conditions. The Code of Guidance recommends that the 'bedroom standard' is adopted as a minimum measure of overcrowding, This allows one bedroom for:[5]

- each adult couple
- any other adult aged 21 or over
- two adolescents of the same sex aged 10 to 20
- two children regardless of sex under the age of 10

england.shelter.org.uk/legal/housing_options/allocation_of_local_authority_housing/priorities_and_preference/reasonable_and_additional_preference#_edn5

It's not quite the law but it's a very strong recommendation in the statutory guidance to local authorities.

This is why I keep banging on about finding the housing allocations policy document - I'd be quite surprised if this was not in there.

I would be not at all surprised if OP had simply been given the wrong information by random council employee.

I haven't said she won't be over crowded, but overcrowding by one bedroom is likely to be a lower priority than overcrowding by 2 or more bedrooms.

I was responding to nokidshere.

LOL, I beg to differ! You seem weirdly obsessed with the OP, and haven't stopped poking and needling her since you came onto the thread.

Not sure how replying to the OP's posts like literally every other poster is being 'weirdly obsessed', especially as only 2 of my posts have actually been addressing the OP(my other posts are discussions with other posters) but I guess I'm automatically weird and obsessed because I have an opposite opinion to her. But clearly I have touched a nerve or something by saying that her plan was not a viable plan so I have since stopped addressing the OP.

Oh ok - sorry

Use the lounge as a bedroom get a day bed that can be used as a sofa in the daytime
Also the beds with a pull out mattress underneath

Make use of shelving for storage you’d be amazed how much you can actually get in nice boxes on shelves

If you can afford it rent a storage unit so you can de clutter and maybe rotate toys etc

Dear god...divide and conquer has definitely worked hasn't it...

Did anyone watch George Clarke the other night....his sentiments are admirable but until we separate and deal with social problems that go hand in hand with low cost housing the powers that be will continue to demonise and ignore social housing.

I read years ago that originally tenants, when social housing on a big scale was created, had to be employed, married, not necessarily have children and be of 'good character' and it was when councils started to house on mass basis that 'less desirable' tenants housed that estates started to get reputations. Not sure if that is true.

OK...I'm going to admit it..DH and I live in a 3 bed council house...lived in social housing for 30 years..DC grew up here...they have all left home...but this is their family home in the same way others have homes...they come and stay and eldest DS has returned 'boomerang' when he has been ill with MH issues numerous times... he is a single guy under 35..therefore no chance of secure housing, he can rent a small flat when he is well but when he is ill he cannot do it if he cant work he loses his flat....if we downsized he would be homeless..therefore adding to another social problem.

I don't earn enough to private rent...but earn enough to rent without benefits..why on earth would I give it up like some suggest here and then have to claim rent rebates ...There are not the properties to downsize to either, although the council do periodically send generic 'release your home' flyers to us but DH is chronically ill, the upheaval would not benefit him.

I had no part in making laws to sell council housing...I disagree with it and I'm not giving up a secure tenancy. regardless of what nutters on MN think

OP hang in there...

Sorry, didn't mean to be snitty, Unicorn.

There'll always be someone with higher priority as long as there are vulnerable people who are street homeless. Nevertheless, people do get housed and people do get transfers.

OP's first task is to get on the list. Even if the council won't let her now, they have to let her apply in 8 months when her youngest child turns 1:

Natural growth

If the standards are breached because a child of the household has reached one of the specified ages (one year or ten years) and the household has not changed in any other way then there will be no offence.[1] The birth of a child will also not count, as children under one will be disregarded. In order for this exception to apply, the occupier must have made an application to the council for alternative accommodation. In addition to this, if there was an opportunity for the occupier to require one of the household to leave and this was not done, an offence would be committed.

england.shelter.org.uk/legal/housing_conditions/overcrowding/permissible_overcrowding

I worked in social housing & the average wait for a family sized house back then (i left in 2011) which is 3+ bedrooms was around 10 years. Unfortunately there just isnt the housing stock and people from decades past have this "I'm alright Jack" attitude and refuse to move out of family sized houses. We had literally dozens of old pensioners in 3 or 4 bed houses that they had been given decades earlier and the children are now grown adults.

In your situation, i wouldnt privately rent. I'd save every single damned penny you can, move north if you have to & buy a house. Chances of getting housed by your council in even the next 5 years is slim to none.

TacoLover I don't think you're obsessed I think you get some shitty little kick out of pretending you're superior to OP and picking apart her choices.

Obsessed? No.

Nasty and unecessary? Absolutely.

Only you know why.

Hi OP I would definitely move into private rented. You only live once and your quality of life will be so much better, plus many do offer tenancies of two years or longer. Also sort out contraception so you dont outgrow the next place

@TeamUnicorn
OP You do seem to be ducking the question but have you gone through the allocation policy with a fine tooth comb? Failing that move up North

I have gone through the overcrowded 1985 act word by word before I even had my 2nd so I knew what I was in for. However it states that I could be over crowded when my 3rd turns 1 depending on the sizes of my room & because they are more than 110sq ft each, I am not to be deemed over crowded coz I can fit 2 adults in each room which is 4 children following the space standard policy.

People going on as if I did not take anything into account before I decided to extend my family, it was a decision I made fully aware of my actions, surroundings, consequences & inconveniences. Having my adorable lovely 3 kids is a decision I’ll make all over again if I had to besides the odds. Besides we were gonna be overcrowded anyway regardless as I was housed when I was expecting my 1st, it was just a matter of when so we braced ourselves and understood the reality of social housing. I made myself overcrowded but as others have mentioned it’s not the end of the world there are others going through much much worse. Y'all so DAMN dramatic gosh, some of your responses are as if I’m living in a room with a toilet outside a leaking roof damp walls & away from civilisation . We are a privileged family and happy, we have a roof over our head, a garden from our living room, its clean and cosy, & because of our small space we are a very close family. Yes space will be ideal and yes it’ll obviously be the best for everyone in our home but until then we look at the bright side.

I contacted my local council because I am already in their property & didn’t think it would have been an issue to start there first. No where did I claim they are entitled to house me.

To everyone asking, No I do not regret having 3 kids in a 1 bed flat, nor do I think it is “a stupid” thing to do, is it unconventional in this day and age? Yes that I agree with, but I do not think it’s ridiculous. I am not asking for your sympathy or support for my decision. I’m asking for a clear 2 way option advice, don’t be so subjective. it’s each to their own, what appeals to me might be different to what appeals to you.

I have gone through the overcrowded 1985 act word by word before I even had my 2nd so I knew what I was in for. However it states that I could be over crowded when my 3rd turns 1 depending on the sizes of my room & because they are more than 110sq ft each, I am not to be deemed over crowded coz I can fit 2 adults in each room which is 4 children following the space standard policy.

She's asking about the housing allocations policy document for your local authority!

• Every local authority has to have one
• They have to stick to it
• This is the law

If you don't know what we're talking about can you please just give the name of your local authority so we can find it for you.

You've also interpreted the space standard of statutory overcrowding incorrectly. There are two methods of calculating it based on number of rooms or floor space. If you are overcrowded by either method then you are statutorily overcrowded.

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1985/68/section/326

(3)The permitted number of persons in relation to a dwelling is whichever is the less of —

(a)the number specified in Table I in relation to the number of rooms in the dwelling available as sleeping accommodation, and

(b)the aggregate for all such rooms in the dwelling of the numbers specified in column 2 of Table II in relation to each room of the floor area specified in column 1

Be careful about private renting, one of my friends recently ended up homeless for several months with her 2 children because the landlord of her house decided to sell.
She's finally renting another house.

However we do live in the South of England where rents are high, it's a landlords market & social housing is now restricted to jobless single mothers only it seems.