30 hours child care rates

[InTheTriangle]

I've got a bit of a dilemma regarding the amount we'll receive as a discount as part of the 30 hours child care, and looking for a bit of advice, or if anyone else has experienced this.

So from some research...

The Gov pay our council £5.80 per hour for the 30 free hours. Found here:
www.gov.uk/government/publications/early-years-national-funding-formula-allocations-and-guidance

Our council then pay our nursery £5.13 per hour from that £5.80. I got this through an FOI request.

So 30 hours a week x 38 weeks = 1140 hours (which we are eligible for)
£5.13 x 1140 = £5848.20 a year savings

However.... we've been given a £345 discount per month for 12 months (they average the 38 weeks over a year) but that works out as:
£345 x 12 = £4140 a year savings

I'm at a bit of a loss as to why the discount is so far below what the council pay. I'm guessing there may be further admin fee's, but ~£1700 a year for one child's 30 hours seems a bit excessive!

Am I missing anything? How would others approach this?

Is your child in nursery full time or 5 days? Some nurseries cap it at 6hrs per day, so If you only use 3 days you can only have 18 free hours, for example.

Is your child in nursery 5 days? I think some nurseries cap it at 6 hours per day, so if you only use 3 days you only get 18 free hours for example.

🤦‍♀️ Thought it had lost my first post so rewrote it.

What are your child's days and hours?

What daily rate were you paying?

Have you asked them to break down your bill for you? That might help you work out whether they have calculated correctly or not.

Is it to do with the difference between months and weeks? Obviously there aren’t 4 weeks in every month, so if somewhere along the way someone has made that assumption, then the monthly calculation they have given you could be wrong.

Are they open 52 weeks a year? Our nursery is only open 50 weeks a year so the weekly amount would be averaged over that.

How do they actually bill you? I found it was hard to work out initially because the unit was originally days but with funding, the billing unit changed to hours. So we’d get charged 1 full day and then so many billable hours at the higher per hour rate then funding would kick in for the remaining 30.

They also often use it to subside those who only use the 30/15 hours free without using additional hours. Nurseries are really struggling to balance the books due to the funding

I don’t think they work out discounts like that. They just charge a certain amount to make a profit.

Also they can charge you more than the funded hour rate. What is the hourly rate you’re billed at? It’s quite possible it’s more than £5.13 and so the ‘discount’ doesn’t add up. I’ve never known a nursery to bill like this. Usually you get 30 funded hours per week (free or billed at lower rate) and other hours billed at normal rate. It would be hard to offer a monthly ‘discount’ over a year because you don’t always use the same hours month to month.

"What are your child's days and hours?"

We do 4 full days a week (equates to roughly 42 hours a week). We're eligible for the full 30 hours

"What daily rate were you paying?"

Should that matter? I'm looking at it from the perspective that the council pay £5.13 an hour, and we receive £3.63ish of that. Where's the other £1.50?

"Is it to do with the difference between months and weeks? Obviously there aren’t 4 weeks in every month, so if somewhere along the way someone has made that assumption, then the monthly calculation they have given you could be wrong."

We're billed monthly, It's the same flat rate no matter the month of the year or how many days they are open or closed on a certain month.

Also just to add, we've filled out the forms already. We're claiming the full 30 hours, the nursery themselves spread the hours across 3 days, but it's the full 30 hours.

.

If for example, we used all 30 hours every week in a month (which we do). That's £5.13 x 30 hours = £153.90 a week the council are providing.

That's £153.90 a week...yet we only see £345 for a calendar month (roughly £82 a week)

Surely daily rate does matter? It's 30 free hours, not £x off. So, if you're nursery charge eg £3 an hour, your bill would be £90 less.

Have you asked the nursery? Maybe it’s an error? We did similar hours to you and only paid 1.50 a day for lunch once the free hours came in.

I'm guessing from the fact that you've ignored the 'what's your daily rate' questions, that you have been paying less than £5.13 an hour. So, you think you should get more than 30 free hours? I doubt the funding works like that.

the 30 hours are only term time- are they spread out over the 52 weeks of the year? So 30hoursx39 weeks / 52?

We're above the £5.13 rate, quite a bit above it (London prices). They'd operate at a loss if we got truly "free" hours.

"Have you asked the nursery? Maybe it’s an error? We did similar hours to you and only paid 1.50 a day for lunch once the free hours came in."

I've spoken to them, but was told it was correct. Don't really want to press them again without being certain something is wrong. 2 other families get the same deduction, so it's not just us.

Ah, ok, I was wrong. Apologies. I have no answers then, sorry!

If your child attends 4 days although you're entitled to the 30 hours, you could only claim 24 at our nursery. You'd only get the full 30 if attending 5 days

Even if our hourly rate was say... £3.13 an hour (it's actually over £6). The council are paying the nursery £5.13 an hour according to the FOI request I made.

So conceptually that'd mean we get a free hour... but what happens to the remaining £2 difference?

I assume they are capping the number of hours per day and as the 30 hours relate to ‘term time’ you are getting some hours at the full rate.

If your child is attending 4 days then they would receive 24 hours of funded childcare a week.
Nurseries are allowed to charge for consumables which could be the added cost.
Lots of nurseries are closing down because they just can’t cover their cost anymore. They are fed up of being a political football.

If your hourly rate is £6 and the government are funding of £5.13 whose making up the short fall?