30 hours child care rates

[InTheTriangle]

I've got a bit of a dilemma regarding the amount we'll receive as a discount as part of the 30 hours child care, and looking for a bit of advice, or if anyone else has experienced this.

So from some research...

The Gov pay our council £5.80 per hour for the 30 free hours. Found here:
www.gov.uk/government/publications/early-years-national-funding-formula-allocations-and-guidance

Our council then pay our nursery £5.13 per hour from that £5.80. I got this through an FOI request.

So 30 hours a week x 38 weeks = 1140 hours (which we are eligible for)
£5.13 x 1140 = £5848.20 a year savings

However.... we've been given a £345 discount per month for 12 months (they average the 38 weeks over a year) but that works out as:
£345 x 12 = £4140 a year savings

I'm at a bit of a loss as to why the discount is so far below what the council pay. I'm guessing there may be further admin fee's, but ~£1700 a year for one child's 30 hours seems a bit excessive!

Am I missing anything? How would others approach this?

That's my point. There is no shortfall. For every hour the council pay them £5.13. We don't get a free hour. We get a reduction. Of that £5.13 we get £3.63

Of course there’s a short fall If the nursery charge £6 an hours which you said they do, then the rate of 5.13 doesn’t cover it.
The nursery are picking up the 87p shortfall every funded hour per child.

But op, the info you need to find out is how they are offering the 30, are they stretching it? So potential it would put to be 22.35 hours at week at 51 weeks or 23.75 hours at 48 weeks or 30 hours at 38 weeks.

You may find that your child is only eligible for 17.8 hours a week at 4.50 funded hours per day.

Ok 1 hour example. £6 cost, council gives them £5.13.

We get charged £2.37 for that hour.

If you read the OP, we get a reduction in our bill but it's less than what the council are paying them. So for whatever reason the benefit isn't being fully passed on.

It's definitely 30 hours, we had to sign the declaration and nominate what days the hours would be used on only a couple of months back.

I'll ask for a break down of where they get £345 a month from. I'm guessing there's some creative charges, as you mentioned they can't afford to give truly free hours. I don't expect that either. I do expect whatever the council pay to be passed on to the parents though.

I did look at the stretched figures, it was:
1140 hours a year / 52 weeks = 22 hours a week

22 x £5.12 x 4.2 weeks in a month is still well over £450 a month.

It's 2am so can't get into the maths (!) but

• 30 hours funding is term time only
• they 'have' to give you free hours but are still able to charge you for food, nappies and any activities

For us, given our nursery was used 50 weeks per year, averaged out we still paid £248 per month for 3 days. I never asked for calculations but knew they included a charge for a weekly music class and food.

We used 30 hours the first year it was rolled out. I know nursery fees across the board have increased significantly since then at that nursery. Nurseries are struggling to balance the books and need to get the difference in their day rate vs council rate from somewhere.

I know some nurseries around here only offer 30 hours if you're 4/5 days per week etc. Ultimately they're a business and it's up to them how much they can support it.

You’re still missing the point OP. You’re just either getting charged more than £6 for the other ours or you pay extra for ‘free’ hours, eg nappy or cream charges.
The nursery gets all of the funding (£5.13/h or whatever) but they have their own way of charging for the rest of the service they provide so your fees don’t drop by the amount the council pays.

Sorry, maybe not ‘nappy’ for 3yo but whatever the nursery charge extra for - good maybe?

Food

If you're using the provision year round as opposed to term time, in reality it's 22 hours per week which is what we use.
Your nursery can use the free allocation for "sessions" but charge additionally on top of that. For instance if the nursery have designated their "sessions" are only 3/4 hours morning and afternoon, there is the middle hours to cover which they can charge for. A lot of nurseries do this because the funding from the gvmt doesn't cover their costs. They can also charge additionally for food/nappies and the such. Again, which many do due to the amount they receive from the gvmt. For 2 full days a week, our nursery bill is still £160 a month despite using the free hours provision.

From what you're saying you get the 30 hours over the 3 days then pay normally for the 4th day. As you can see from your own sums the scheme is hideously underfunded and nurseries are struggling to operate. You do need to ask your nursery for a full breakdown of fees which they should be providing you with anyway to be fair. To cover their costs some nurseries will charge for extras such as lunch/even lunchtime staffing to help recoup their costs so you may find there is a daily charge in there for the days you are using the funding. Remember that nurseries usually aren't raking it in though they are usually struggling to operate so it might be worth bearing this in mind before you complain. Good luck

Several nurseries here have a standard rate of £7 an hour.
Funding is £4 an hour they receive but say you do 8-6 4 days a week, each additional hour over the funding is charged at £9 an hour.

I get you, OP. Our nursery is up front about what they receive from the council, and it is passed on in full to parents attending 4/5 days a week.

They aren’t out of pocket by having to truly offer 30 free hours - they simply recognise that the funding isn’t a subsidy to them but a subsidy to parents. Our fees are reduced across the year by the amount of the funding they receive. Very straightforward.

Do you not get a breakdown of your monthly bill?

We have chosen to spread the hours over the whole year so it’s only 22hrs a week for 52 weeks. And this only covers 9-5 on two days and 8-5 on one day. We pay full rate for day 4. We also have to pay top up hours because I need to drop at 8 am 3 days and pick up after 5.
Then we get charged £18 a week for incidentals like craft supplies etc.

Ask for a breakdown of what the charges are per day.

What you’ll find is that they give the free hours but you pay more for the other hours. So you’re remaining hours will be charged at £6.50.

Or they will have charged for other things such as snacks, paper, any other things that get used up. Whereas before it was included in the £6.

At my nursery you just got the hours free, so when DS2 did 7.30-5.30 3 days a week I didn’t pay at all.

It doesn't work like a discount where the council pay part of the balance and you pay the rest. If your stretching your hours (which it sounds like you are) there are a max of 21.9 hours per week that you don't pay for. So the council meet the cost of those hours, but at a capped rate. You then pay for the remaining 20 or so hours at full price, plus whatever extras your nursery charge

My nursery only lets you claim 6 of the 10hrs of a full day as 'free' so still have to pay for the other 4

Maybe you got a discount for full time before, as you’re not paying the full amount, you’re no longer entitled to a discount.

£5.13 X 24 hours a week X 38 weeks divided by 12 = £390 which is a lot closer to the figure you're seeing. I suspect you are only technically claiming 6 hours a day X 4 days and they haven't communicated it very well.

Or the wrap-around fees are calculated on an overall basis, including you having all 30 over 4 days and me only claiming 12 over 2 days and someone else only going 9-3 in termtime and only paying for their lunch and overall the wrap-around works out at £x.

Or they're pulling a fast one. Good luck in finding anyone in the nursery who can explain it tho.

What the nursery gets from the council doesn't cover their overheads. As well as it only coveting a certain number of hours a day, they will likely have something in their t's&c's about 'extras' not being covered. For some nurseries this is food. They might say it's activities- baby ballet and such- that they include. Our nursery includes access to things like nearby private woodland, which they have exclusive access to and which is part of their appeal. I think in some cases they are stretching it, but I understand why they do it so I'm not going to complain. The alternative is that they make a loss by providing the 'free' 30
hours, and close down. Or stop providing the hours at all.

I'd say they're now charging you extra for snacks and meals. So they pass the saving with one hand and take it back from you with the other. That seems to be what happens locally to me.