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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To hesitate to report this relative for fraud?

84 replies

IABUQueen · 31/07/2019 01:38

Few months ago, a relative of mine asked my DH for a favor. My DH is a yes man and doesn’t have a lot of insight into my relatives lives because they only see each other on occasion.

This favor was to take a sum of money, 2 grand, in cash. And to transfer this money to a third party through the bank.

Now this relative is “close” to me. They made it sound urgent and said they needed it ASAP as of now. So within an hour this was done and DH didn’t question anything. He just assumed it’s a trustworthy thing since they’re related to me.

Now.. this person and I had previously discussed in the past how it’s wrong to avoid paying taxes.. I didn’t have my facts and details to confront but I alluded to it. They responded defensively saying how they’re forced to hide some of the income in their business otherwise they will lose out on benefits and it will make them work around the clock. They have a pretty easy laid back life.

So I confronted at that point and said I think it is immoral because their could be a more deserving family for those benefits. Their reasons is that they don’t want to work a 9-5, that the mother wants to be a stay at home mum and that they need to save up for holidays.

So I kept my nose out of it not to fall out. Shared my discontent.. didn’t tell my DH as I didn’t think it will concern him.

However I was very annoyed when they involved him as I believe the money they gave him was undeclared money and they wanted to “clean it” through us.. I’m annoyed because they know my opinion and I believe they intentionally made sure I don’t find out before it works out.

Now that they’ve done this, I feel like they’ve given me grounds to report them.

But I feel aweful to do so. I’m having a battle with my morals.

Part of me wants to do it to stop them.. part of me thinks im not in their circumstances and so can’t judge... part of me feels like I would find it hard to face them again after I report them as it will be seen as serious betrayal.

What would u do ?

OP posts:
TwattingDog · 31/07/2019 07:53

@IABUQueen it wouldn't be prison if he was convicted. Very unlikely given the state of the CJS these days.

You would, however, be putting all your joint assets at risk.

Move on. Go NC. These people are not your friends. You are not obligated to spend time with them or speak to them.

sashh · 31/07/2019 07:54

OP help on sentencing here

www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/offences/magistrates-court/item/money-laundering/

leckford · 31/07/2019 07:58

This is money laundering, the person who asked is probably involved in some sort of crime, probably drugs or the money could be stolen. The banks are supposed to report cash payments, this one was a small amount, but if you husband is stupid enough to keep doing this he may have the police after him.

Juells · 31/07/2019 07:58

Why is the OP still dithering? 🤔

FFS I have no patience....

ProfessorSlocombe · 31/07/2019 08:00

@IABUQueen it wouldn't be prison if he was convicted. Very unlikely given the state of the CJS these days.

But it could (and should) trigger a Proceeds Of Crime Act (POCA) attachment. At which point the OPs DH will find themselves having to account for every penny in and out of their lives and pay back what can't be accounted for. Plus having an offence of dishonesty (what offences aren't dishonest ?) means trouble finding a job.

TwattingDog · 31/07/2019 08:07

@ProfessorSlocombe agreed.

OP needs to get a bit of a grip here.

Jebuschristchocolatebar · 31/07/2019 08:08

It’s money laundering. If it’s an unusual transaction for your dh the bank might have reported him to the authorities anyway. Either way fraud is not a victimless crime no matter what people think. Your dh has now become complicit in this.

Original poster
IABUQueen · 31/07/2019 08:10

I really genuinely believe... that my DH thought that the man needed to do a quick bank transfer to meet a deadline.. and he was running late for the bank as he finishes work late.

Don’t these things happen?? It’s only I that know that this can’t be the case because I know he does have enough in the bank unlike what he makes himself out to be. I pretty much know the details of their savings because I was once close enough to know.

I genuinely believe my DH thought it’s credible. The man is usually trusted by a lot of those around him.

Surely as relatives people do that for each other sometimes ?? The 2 grand was needed by the 3rd party urgently for something decent and legitimate, deadline was next morning -according to the story of my relative.

It’s only with time that I’m putting two and two together and feeling there was something delibrate. Because of a conversation we once had.

I was very annoyed when it happened because in my gut I felt somethings not right because it was odd behaviour to not just come to me or any other family member as they’re not that close to DH.. I couldn’t put my finger on it.. yes I’m dumb... but I did feel something is not right and slowly grew to realise the depth of it.

Anyway... it is 2K. It’s just something I’ve never done and I do feel hugely betrayed. I’m also sure now after putting 2 and 2 together that most likely it was money laundering. But I do believe it is v likely my DH had no clue.. because he is usually v strongly opinionated about fraud. But I’ll have a chat with him when I’m calmer to get to the bottom of it and let him know what the hell he got us into.

I actually didn’t know how businesses work. I’ve been looking to open my own business and that’s how I realised that cash needs to be all declared. Call me stupid if you wish. I honestly didn’t know what the term money laundering meant practically until yesterday.. I thought it’s something like a black market for big businesses.

There was absolutely nothing to gain in this for DH. No money or anything. Just the inconvenience.

We had our accounts investigated before. Just a year ago.. Something to do with house purchase and I’m sure they checked for money laundering. We were completely clear..

OP posts:
verticality · 31/07/2019 08:10

I would stay well out of it.

Original poster
IABUQueen · 31/07/2019 08:13

Can I request that the bloody idiot of a relative of mine send us back 2K via bank transfer? That way we can I’m future explain the transaction as a loan??

That way he would need to take his stupid 2 K back in cash and deal with it himself.

And I will get DH to write a bloody letter thanking him for returning the loan.

OP posts:
Newyearnewunicorn · 31/07/2019 08:13

I think it’s unlikely the bank will flag anything up. A while ago I was behind someone who withdrew £20k in cash and the cashier was laughing and flirting with him and she filled supermarket bags for life with bundles of notes.
I got told off by her for banking £200 in cheques.

ProfessorSlocombe · 31/07/2019 08:15

The banks are supposed to report cash payments

It's a bit more sophisticated than that these days. They will be running all sorts of oversight checks on all transactions (the same way they look for fraudulent activity on stolen and lost cards). An unusual one-off out-of-profile deposit will certainly have set a "watch" flag somewhere.

The OP needs to bear in mind that the bank will be doing its utmost to protect itself. Unless they can show they were taking due diligence, they could be in Big Trouble too.

It's why the OPs relative is nowhere near as clever as they tell themselves every morning in the mirror. If the wanted to avoid tax, they should have thought big, and earned a few billions first. No one looks then. But low level evasion ? It's very traceable. As I said, a lot of eBayers have had nasty shocks (including, some MNetters from past threads) when HMRC suddenly turn up asking for their cut.

Original poster
IABUQueen · 31/07/2019 08:19

Juelle hide the thread and stop moaning. This is not for you.

OP posts:
CatInADoghouse · 31/07/2019 08:22

Does your DH have it in text or emails that he was tricked into this? If it was all by phone and he has no evidence then I wouldn't do anything apart from make a massive deal about it to this relative, warn other relatives and make sure you and DH are NC with this relative again. If he has evidence then I would tell DH to report it to the bank. What your relative has done is morally wrong and illegal.

LIZS · 31/07/2019 08:25

Why would you embroil yourselves in it further by contacting the third party? HmmIf I've understood correctly your dh is not 2k down. Think you need to put it down to experience and hope he has learnt his lesson. Not even the most naive person would have done this for someone they only knew by name without having doubts or asking questions. which he chose to ignore. Was there something in it for him?

BeyondMyWits · 31/07/2019 08:27

Stop talking/thinking about writing letters etc.

It really does then start to sound like conspiracy to defraud rather than a supposedly naive involvement in hiding some money from the tax man.

hazell42 · 31/07/2019 08:28

I'm still not clear how you know there is fraud. I can think of several plausible reasons why they might do this.
For instance, my kids give me cash to pay their bills sometimes because they are overdrawn at the bank and know that if that pay it in there the bank will take it and they wont be able to pay their bills.
I'd say it sounds much more like that scenario, unless you have good reason to believe it is fraud, which on the face if it you dont at all

Aridane · 31/07/2019 08:30

Gonna try hold my cool and and not blast an argument at DH for the millionth time about this

Get a grip!

Jebuschristchocolatebar · 31/07/2019 08:34

@Newyearnewunicorn the cashier behind the counter isn’t allowed to tell the person there is an query re money laundering. It’s called tipping off and it’s considered a really serious issue and is a crime in itself in my jurisdiction.

Original poster
IABUQueen · 31/07/2019 08:40

DH isn’t short of 2K. He took it in cash and spent it in cash.

But morally speaking if the third party transfers it back, they would have to deal with it themselves as a family. I could pay them back in cash.. would be hard but will get them to wait until I saved it up in cash.. for being idiots.

The third party is this mans son. It was for his fees. Reason DH complied was because the son is on friendly terms with him, and he thought he had to help.

I’m gonna take this thread down at the end of today as it’s now a bit outing.

OP posts:
Catsandchardonnay · 31/07/2019 08:52

My DH was involved in prosecuting a case like this. The money launderer got a heavier sentence than the fraudster. It’s up to you. If you report you’ll be dropping your DH right in it. Tell him to never ever do it again.

sashh · 31/07/2019 08:55

I think it’s unlikely the bank will flag anything up.

Not true. I recently joined '20 cogs' so signed up for some lottery sites, my bank froze my card and called me to ask about them. The total amount was under £5 but it was the activity they noticed.

A different bank have also taken action a couple of times and contacted me, I don't sleep well and I'm always awake early so I often do my shopping at 5.00am, my bank has, at last, got used to my unusual time keeping.

7salmonswimming · 31/07/2019 08:56

Are you creating a paper trail with this thread?

Can’t see why else you’d be going on and on and on ...,

BogglesGoggles · 31/07/2019 08:56

Fraud convictions are pretty rare. They’re more likely to be taken to court to recoup the unpaid tax and over paid benefits. Fraud is difficult to convict and most CPS lawyers aren’t that talented and most HMRC lawyers only care about big sums not a few grand here and there.

namechangerreloaded · 31/07/2019 09:00

OP, I think the correct protocol is to tell your own bank (presumably where the money was initially lodged before transfer). What your husband did is illegal, but your bank will look more favourably on him approaching them at this stage than it being discovered as part of a bigger investigation if this family member is found to be money laundering.