To hesitate to report this relative for fraud?

[IABUQueen]

Few months ago, a relative of mine asked my DH for a favor. My DH is a yes man and doesn’t have a lot of insight into my relatives lives because they only see each other on occasion.

This favor was to take a sum of money, 2 grand, in cash. And to transfer this money to a third party through the bank.

Now this relative is “close” to me. They made it sound urgent and said they needed it ASAP as of now. So within an hour this was done and DH didn’t question anything. He just assumed it’s a trustworthy thing since they’re related to me.

Now.. this person and I had previously discussed in the past how it’s wrong to avoid paying taxes.. I didn’t have my facts and details to confront but I alluded to it. They responded defensively saying how they’re forced to hide some of the income in their business otherwise they will lose out on benefits and it will make them work around the clock. They have a pretty easy laid back life.

So I confronted at that point and said I think it is immoral because their could be a more deserving family for those benefits. Their reasons is that they don’t want to work a 9-5, that the mother wants to be a stay at home mum and that they need to save up for holidays.

So I kept my nose out of it not to fall out. Shared my discontent.. didn’t tell my DH as I didn’t think it will concern him.

However I was very annoyed when they involved him as I believe the money they gave him was undeclared money and they wanted to “clean it” through us.. I’m annoyed because they know my opinion and I believe they intentionally made sure I don’t find out before it works out.

Now that they’ve done this, I feel like they’ve given me grounds to report them.

But I feel aweful to do so. I’m having a battle with my morals.

Part of me wants to do it to stop them.. part of me thinks im not in their circumstances and so can’t judge... part of me feels like I would find it hard to face them again after I report them as it will be seen as serious betrayal.

What would u do ?

What makes me so angry is that this relative could’ve approached any other person who he knows directly and is related to. There are many people in my relatives who this person is close to and they have the money they needed at the time...

He clearly approached my DH because he was going to be embarrassed to say no to his legitimate excuse “I’m in a rush to transfer because of no bank” and because he was going to be under pressure to say no and because he has no background to say no based on.

I’m just sooo pissed they chose us... they know my DH is easy to take advantage of. He has a history of being naive.

If I pull them up on it they won’t take me seriously. They will paint me as disrespectful. They have done in the past. I am not on good terms with them already for multiple other situations which aren’t offences in legal terms.. Me and my DH are much younger than this relative. A whole other generation.

The funny part is I was already LC with them when they did this. DH was in no need to be involved directly in the dispute so I just told him I briefly “don’t like them because they’re disrespectful ”. I suspect that’s why he didn’t inform me straight away.

He struggles with boundaries and believes family should love each other and he thought I’ll come round to liking them again.

Huzzah yes I’m sure. I don’t think you read my OP properly. The receiving party is a relative. It’s a private transaction for a private need. Nothing to do with the business

I wouldn't report them- it is just circumstantial evidence that you have - eg they are under declaring income and you think this transaction just helps them not to I assume as otherwise it would be possible to see the income going in and out of the bank account - but it is possible that there are valid reasons.
Maybe you can /DH can send them an official email - just confirming the transaction on their behalf just to create a paper trail?
But I think you were unreasonable not to tell your DH what you thought was going on

The receiving party is a relative. It’s a private transaction for a private need. Nothing to do with the business

If that's the case why couldn't they just walk into a branch of the bank that the recipient relative banks with and pay in the cash? Or give the cash directly to the relative?

It's all sounds weird.

If I were you OP the thing I'd be concentrating on is the worry that your DP would so willingly do someone a favour like this. I'd be worried about what other scrapes he might get himself into.

Im having a bit of anxiety. I hate being at the mercy of someone else’s decisions.

Gonna try hold my cool and and not blast an argument at DH for the millionth time about this.

It’s money laundering, I would forget about it, not a big deal unless it happens 5 times more

Yes, it is like speeding. You only get points if you do it over 5 times.
And murder, the police aren’t bothered until you do in your sixth victim.

It was 2k though, not 200k! Yes he’s on the fiddle with the tax man but you do realise that the majority of tradespeople don’t put everything through the books, it’s always cash for this reason. You want to dob your rele in it for not paying all his tax on what is a very small amount of money when there are billion pound businesses using professionals to help them dodge paying full tax. I think you are being ridiculous. If it was drug money well yes report, but a small business fiddling as the majority of them do, nah, turn a blind eye. Just don’t move money about for them in future if you don’t want to be involved.

FGS mind your own business, let your husband know that the relative is dodgy and not to do any more favours for him, and cut contact with the relative. I'd say something to the relative about it as well.

Don't report. I'm an ex Economic Crime Detective. Money laundering regs, the Fraud Act - it's all very clear cut stuff, so anyone involved is culpable and liable to be arrested, their finances investigated and their house / car searched. If they take it to court, orders can be made for money to be repaid and all sorts.

Now, without knowing all the ins ans lld outs of what happened here, on the face of what you've said your DH is involved and failed to ask questions. That in itself can be used against someone - that they ought to have known, but didn't ask what they were getting involved in. The question is whether it was reasonable for him to never accepted the tale at face value or not.

People used by the "Nigerian" fraudsters / scammers also get arrested, investigated, searched etc.

On your one, I'd let rip at everyone about their part, but not do the reporting.

Mag

Reason why this is annoying for me is because they drag me into this knowing I wouldn’t consent and took advantage of my DHs ignorance.

AIBU to not trust them ever again? I don’t think that’s a decent thing to do. They could’ve come to me and asked but they didn’t because they knew I would say no as I know the background.

Honestly I wouldn't report it due to your husbands link. It's a crap situation your husband was manipulated into, and yes, explain to him that although he tried to do a favour for your relative out of the goodness of his heart it does seem to be illegal or at the very least a bit dodgy (although you have no real proof) and that he definitely shouldn't do it again. He seems to be a nice guy, if a bit naive.

I would tell your relative that under no circumstances will it be happening again and leave it at that with NC. It's a massive breach of trust and they seem to have planned it sneakily so that you weren't around to stop it.

I would maybe let one or 2 family members know, maybe just something along the lines of 'I can't believe X got DH to do this, it doesn't feel right to me!' They may then let on to other family members, so you haven't blown up about it, but people know.

Your moral compass is pointing in the right direction, but this relative has left you in a nasty situation with your conscience and could leave your hubby in hot water. I understand your conundrum, but advise to leave it alone and remove them from your lives.

OP it doesn’t matter if the person who did the money laundering protests their innocence and insists they had no idea. Your DH would not be able to prove that, it will be his word against someone else’s. If you report this, you will get in trouble. Again, your argument about how this has only happened once and surely that will protect him from trouble is irrelevant for the same reasons mentioned above (how many times have you read of any innocent drug mules being let off because they hand on heart thought it was something else they were transporting? Never)

I work in banking and we get training on these sorts of offences all of the time. The penalties are very serious and yes, do involve prison sentences

5heres not two ways about it. You either feel strongly about it and report them, don't need to say anything beyond that you strongly believe they are not declaring all the money coming to their business because they told you so and elt them investigate.

Or loyalty lays more in your family relationship and close your eyes to it because of the impact it will have otherwise.

There is no such thing as selective morals, feeling a bit bad but not enough etc...

How bad is the prison sentence going to be?

Not that I’m going to report them at all, but if ever they do get reported it looks like we are now under the mercy of how good they are at being discreet.

Surely that’s a loophole. Aren’t people able to come clean if they unknowingly were thrown in a shit position? Instead of having to now protect the wrong doer our if self preservation?

Feels like I can’t go NC now as I need to make sure they do things right so we don’t both end up in a mess. Surely that’s not right!

Feels like I can’t go NC now as I need to make sure they do things right so we don’t both end up in a mess. Surely that’s not right!

Why? If they get shopped in by someone else then they will have enough evidence against them not to bring your DH into it. It sounds like your distrustful view of them is not reciprocated the other way. I would just stay out of their business, minimise contact and under no circumstances agree to help them in matters of this nature again. The system will find a way of catching them eventually

If you want all your bank accounts frozen then do report it. What a mess.

I think you and dh should go see a criminal defence solicitor. It might cost £200 but they can tell you what the situation is and the consequences of reporting / not reporting.

It is money laundering but that doesn't always mean jail time or even a criminal record. Do you remember 'canoe man', his children had unwittingly laundered money but no charges were brought.

If you don't report but either your relative or the third party is found out then you could still be dragged into an investigation.

Your dh's bank may also log the transaction as suspicious.

Sorry OP your relative has really done a number on you and your dh.

If you say nothing - to anybody - the more people involved, the more it will get talked about - then chances are nothing will happen to anyone.

If you report them, then chances are that they, your husband - and probably you (as you are the closer relative) will be investigated for money laundering. Chances are there would be a non-custodial sentence and a shed load of family fall out with all sorts of people taking all sorts of sides...

(Certainly would not be talking about my husband's illegal activity on a public forum.)

I think your dh should report it because there's always a chance that someone else will and then it will look like he was in on it.

And the whole thing happened in an hour. Yes my DH should’ve told me.. I know why he didn’t. He literally didn’t think much of it and he knows I don’t like him doing favors for my relatives. wake up and smell the coffee OP.

You are low contact with a relative, said relative approaches your DH for money and your dh launders it through (presumably your joint) bank account for him within the hour? And you really expect people to believe that your dh was some poor hapless victim of manipulation here?

Get real. No it’s not a loophole because your dh knew what he was doing and he did it willingly.

In fact I’d say this is probably not the first time he’s done similar, but that this time he potentially slipped up and put it through the joint account hence why he couldn’t keep it from you.

And of course your DH doesn’t want you to go to the authorities. If the authorities get involved they will go through every single penny of his and your finances. And if as I suspect this isn’t the first time everything could be at risk. For the sake of two grand it probably wouldn’t be a massive thing to authorities, but any more than that and your house, assets etc could potentially be at risk not to mention the fact your dh could go to jail.

He doesn’t want you to go to the authorities because he’s in it up to his neck and doesn’t want to be caught and for you and everyone else to find out exactly what he’s been up to.

Instead of going to the authorities I’d be having a look around to see if you can find any evidence of e.g. bank accounts you didn’t know about etc.

You've had great advice here.

1. Don't report it as by doing so you incriminating your husband

2 Go NC with this person

That’s money laundering and yes your husband could get into trouble particularly as you don’t know for definite where that money came from.
For your DHs sake I would keep quiet, just because someone doesn’t know they’re breaking the law that doesn’t mean they wouldn’t get into trouble

The problem is now, banks use all sorts of systems to look for exactly the sort of behaviour outlined in the OP. And behind them, HMRC are all over the place (watching for people trading on eBay, for example).

It may take a while, but they might pick up something in future and start backtracking - where there is no time limit on charging.

Given the OPs relative sounds a bit thick to start with ((a) for evading tax in the first place and (b) for blabbing to all and sundry about it. If the OP knows, who else does ???????) it's more than likely that they will trip up in future. And then the transaction the OP mentions will be picked up. And - like many here - the only question is why did the OPs DH do it in the first place ? They must be complicit. That's a long way before we get into the matter that it will have contravened the banks T&Cs.

Fraud
Money laundering
Collusion

Relative
Dh
You.

If you report you risk getting dh and yourself into trouble not just relative. If you don’t then you risk getting yourself and dh into trouble for not reporting it as well.

It’s not a joint account thankfully. I do keep my finances separate- somewhat. But definately not officially joint.