OW get more of the blame than OM (in other words society is sexist in this day and age)

[Rainbowhairdontcare]

As inspired by the other thread currently going on. People only mention sex, bit nobody mentioned love.

I know of two cases (a brother and sister). Both had short lived affairs (around three months), their family knew both were miserable in their respective marriages.

When she filed for divorce her exH recognised their marriage was done and everybody moved on quite easily, their DDs are happy and her partner moved in about 7 months ago. Her mom isn't very happy with their relationship but that's s different matter, nobody pointed fingers as to who was at fault for the breakdown of the marriage.

The brother on the other hand, didn't have the same "luck" his exW blamed the OW for everything and still does even though years have passed and she's about to get married again. She condoned her exSIL saying she was unhappy so understandably looked for it somewhere else. He has now married the OW and are expecting their first baby together. The mum is happy with this relationship but it might be that she's excited about the baby. The rest of the family seem to think they're well suited too.

I think society punishes more the OW, she's most of the times the "homewrecker", the OM seldom gets mentioned and in any case the "adulterous" wife is always to blame. Both are sexist attitudes IMO.

Not dragging the other parent and OW/I'm into the mud especially if they're to become their SPs

I get this, but then I think it's pretty awful to not show negativity towards a woman who was sneaking around with your H. Some affairs are carried out so hurtfully and when you see yourself being laughed at and slagged off by your H and the OW in their communication...it's pretty tough not to express your feelings to the kids.

A woman who didnt care about you (the child) and the safety and security of divorce and the impact on you.

If the marriage is so horrendous, then end it before starting up with someone new, to avoid the hurt all round.

I really do feel for the kids involved...but sometimes the betrayed spouse is expected to shut their mouth and take the high road...or be the bigger person.

I absolutely wouldn't want my DC getting close to such a woman and if I was a child in this scenario, I wouldn't want to get close to someone who took part in hurting my mum like this. I wouldn't want the choice taken away from me.

@SandyY2K

I get this, but then I think it's pretty awful to not show negativity towards a woman who was sneaking around with your H. Some affairs are carried out so hurtfully and when you see yourself being laughed at and slagged off by your H and the OW in their communication...it's pretty tough not to express your feelings to the kids.

I agree that parents shouldn't have to 100% hide or deny their feelings when they also need to teach their kids that certain behaviour is nasty and immoral, but I think this is where it becomes more of a problem that people convince themselves it was all the OWs fault to cushion themselves, because they end up passing on biased opinions as fact. In the scenario you described, yes, the couple behaved awfully and it would be morally dubious to hide this from your kids.

But someone who has convinced themselves it is all the OWs fault when in fact it was their husbands as well or entirely are obviously going to convince the kids of the same thing if they discuss it with them, because they are incapable of being objective.

My partner's ex still regularly tells my SS that they were very much in love, I must have stolen him away, he'd still have his daddy living with him if it weren't for me etc. The reality is that he wasn't in the slightest bit happy with her, his decision to leave her wasn't anything to do with me he just happened to meet me around the same time, and he wouldn't have stayed with her in any scenario. They were incompatible and he was miserable. But what she's telling her son is confusing and upsetting to him, and it just isn't true.

Ime women who've been cheated on and immediately pile on the OW are the ones who's relationship was probably a bit shit to begin with. They don't want to admit that they did anything at all wrong so instead blame the OW for everything even if the relationship had been doomed for ages. Its easier to demonize the OW than admit they had just as much responsibility for the relationship failing as their partner did for cheating. And no I don't think cheating because a relationship is doomed is fine (it's still wrong!), but a lot of people don't cheat unless they're unhappy to begin with.

Women who's partner cheats because he's a reprehensible piece of shit are more likely to get upset and realise what a piece of shit he is (& hopefully end the relationship.) They don't tend to demonize the OW because they probably feel sorry for her getting caught up with the same shitty man as them. And sometimes they probably think thank fuck for the OW for making me realise how horrid he was!

@AE18 I agree with you. I think the DC should know the truth but also be able to see their new SP under a more "neutral" light and not the person who "wrecked" their lives.

I absolutely wouldn't want my DC getting close to such a woman and if I was a child in this scenario, I wouldn't want to get close to someone who took part in hurting my mum like this. I wouldn't want the choice taken away from me.

The problem with that Sandy is that it apportions all blame to the cheater and affair partner without looking at the bigger picture.

Around 15 years ago my BIL's wife had an affair and left him for OM (they are still together). For many years their DS's blamed their mother for hurting their father and had very little contact with her. Fast forward a few years and they're in their late 20s with an understanding of the nuances of adult relationships. Whilst they wouldn't condone infidelity they can see that their DF neglected their DM's needs; they had to move house numerous times for his career, she was left doing all the wifework whilst he zoned everyone out and was focused solely on his own career and interests. Their DM had the classic exit affair after years of being ignored - of course she could have left but without the emotional support of another person she didn't feel strong enough. Her DS's actually get on better with her now than with their dad. Problem is if you asked their dad he would perceive himself as the entirely wronged party and if we applied your logic his DSs would still have nothing to do with their mum and her partner.

Whilst I wouldn't ever condone cheating it's unfair to drag dependent children into adult matters.

I don't think I believe men who say they were really unhappy for ages but who didn't leave until they just happened, by complete coincidence, to meet another woman. Maybe the ex wife isn't totally in the wrong when she says they were fine until the point at which her DH started cheating.
It's too easy to say that people cheat because they were unhappy - real life can be a bit hard and stressful and kids are knackering etc. Lots of couples go through tough patches without there being something particularly wrong. And then one of them meets a shiny new person with none of the associated problems of normal life. It's easy to rewrite history and say it was because the relationship was bad. I can't help but think that if the relationship was that terrible one of them would have instigated a split already.

@IWannaSeeHowItEnds

I don't think I believe men who say they were really unhappy for ages but who didn't leave until they just happened, by complete coincidence, to meet another woman. Maybe the ex wife isn't totally in the wrong when she says they were fine until the point at which her DH started cheating.
It's too easy to say that people cheat because they were unhappy - real life can be a bit hard and stressful and kids are knackering etc. Lots of couples go through tough patches without there being something particularly wrong. And then one of them meets a shiny new person with none of the associated problems of normal life. It's easy to rewrite history and say it was because the relationship was bad. I can't help but think that if the relationship was that terrible one of them would have instigated a split already

If you're referring to my comment, yes I'm sure there are people who do this, but it is entirely possible that there are also people that are right to say their relationship was not right for them and they know their own feelings best.

Having seen both of their personalities, it is not hard to see that my partner and his ex are deeply incompatible. They are polar opposites. My partner is unfailingly optimistic, energetic to the point of near hyperactivity, likes to be spontaneous and go with the flow. His ex is obsessively organised and doesn't cope well with deviations from "the plan", anxious, doesn't like many people and enjoys ranting about them at length, doesn't like to be active. She wants to stay in one town and he wants to see the world. They also have completely different ideology including about how to raise children. As well as all this, she is bullheaded, dominates all conversation and does not take on board what people say to her, hence her being blind to the issues.

In other cases, I'm sure some men do trundle along not completely happy until they meet someone that shows them there are people out there that are a better fit for them, but that doesn't negate the fact that they were effectively just settling before, or staying for the sake of the kids.

And yet, despite all her faults he chose to marry her!
Obviously from your pov you love your husband and you don't love his ex wife, so you are predisposed to believing his take on the end of his first marriage and maybe you are right. It just seems that a lot of men say that they were unhappy, but they don't seem to leave until they meet someone else - I think if they were that miserable, they would have noticed before their dick fell into another woman. The ex wife meanwhile, often has an entirely different take on events.

I suppose that what I am getting at is that what people claim were their 'feelings' at any given time, tend to be rewritten further down the line

@IWannaSeeHowItEnds

And yet, despite all her faults he chose to marry her!
Obviously from your pov you love your husband and you don't love his ex wife, so you are predisposed to believing his take on the end of his first marriage and maybe you are right. It just seems that a lot of men say that they were unhappy, but they don't seem to leave until they meet someone else - I think if they were that miserable, they would have noticed before their dick fell into another woman. The ex wife meanwhile, often has an entirely different take on events.

Haha I thought you might say that, and yes it was a very foolish decision that he has had many years to come to regret before and after he left her.

There were many reasons he did so, he was very young at the time (she was ten years older) and suffering from PTSD and depression, it also had a lot to do with insecurity and feelings of inadequacy and settling for the first person to show interest thinking he wasn't likely to be wanted by anyone else. Add to that growing up an environment where all those around you were married with kids in their early twenties and that being the done thing, and you have a recipe for an ill judged first marriage.

I can see why you might be sceptical, but in all honesty the evidence is all there.

My partner wasn't faultless in the decision to marry her by any means, but it was nonetheless a mistake. This is why I strongly advocate being very careful about who you marry the first time around.

Depends on the culture. In mine women who cheat on their husbands for OM often face having to cut of all contact with their families, and are viewed as little more than prostitutes even when there are very good reasons for the affair. When a man cheats it’s considered the wife’s fault because the OW ‘must be giving him something she couldn’t’.

@IWannaSeeHowItEnds in the case I know he only married her after the pressure from her end for everyone in the family to have the same surname was unbearable.

I never took my married one and never will so don't truly understand that logic but that's just me. He's been longer with the "OW" than the actual length of the marriage.

People don't always marry for love, sometimes they do because they think that's "best".

*The problem with that Sandy is that it apportions all blame to the cheater and affair partner without looking at the bigger picture.

The cheater will always appear to be worse.

Even in a case where the H was abusive, bus wife had an affair with a MM... and got pregnant. He kicked her out and wouldn't let her take their 8 yo DS.

MM dumped her. Her H was nasty, but she ended up looking like the bad one.

The thing cheating parents seem to forget, is their DC. There's so much more at stake with kids and cheaters need to seriously think about the consequences before cheating... and the impact it will have on their kids. So many cheaters act selfishly and don't do this.

It has a massive impact on the kids and while it's easy to say leave the kids out of it...or my affair has nothing to do with the kids...that's just not true. Them living between 2 homes is a major change to their normal.

The problem is ppl just dont think about the consequences because they never think they'll get caught.

I don't believe anyone should stay in an unhappy marriage, but they need the guts to leave before starting a new relationship. Not monkey branching from one to another. It's not healthy.

My DB wasn't happy in his marriage. He left, after trying for a while and is now married again. He coparent well and there's no hatred between them.
It's much better for the kids not to have an acrimonious split, which is often the case with infidelity.

I often wonder how 2 ppl in the same marriage have such different views. One saying happy and in love...the other saying they were miserable.

Cheaters often rewrite martial history to suit them... because it would sound pretty bad to say I was happy, but someone else came along.

Anyway...I know affairs are complex at times. Over the years, I've heard all sides of the affair OWs/OMs/BHs/BWs/MMs/MWs every one justifies their position and can be quite convincing.

@SandyY2K

*I often wonder how 2 ppl in the same marriage have such different views. One saying happy and in love...the other saying they were miserable.

Cheaters often rewrite martial history to suit them... because it would sound pretty bad to say I was happy, but someone else came along.*

Because quite often in a relationship one person's way goes and that is a big part of how they got left in the first place, so of course they were happy while everything is on their terms.

It doesn't always come straight from the horses mouth either, friends and family have looked on and commented on how much happier and more himself my partner has seemed since leaving her, and how they had bitten their tongue for years about how miserable he seemed when he was with her. My partner wasn't "allowed" to see his friends after a while.

Some people get left because their partner's are arseholes, and others get left because they are not nice to be with. Others still nobody might be at fault, they just don't work together as a couple and they move on. The existence of one group doesn't mean the others don't exist as well.

@AE18 - there’s still no reason to cheat. The right thing to do is leave before you get your genitals touched by someone else.

@Teddybear45

there’s still no reason to cheat. The right thing to do is leave before you get your genitals touched by someone else

I didn't say it was ok to cheat, this train of the conversation started with me saying that people within the marriage are often biased about the reason for its split and unwittingly pass that on to their kids when they convince themselves of a certain narrative to make themselves feel better and pass it off as facts. It's deteriorated to be about whether there's any scope for someone to be telling the truth when they say they were unhappy in their marriage.

But that's the thing though - why is the person who says they were unhappy, more reliable than the one who says everything was fine? And they are both passing on conflicting messages to their dc. It's human nature to want to believe the best of yourself and to think you didn't do anything wrong in either leaving or being left.

There are people who are genuinely miserable in their relationship and much happier married to someone else. I guess I just don't like exit affairs and think it would be much better for the children if people ended a relationship cleanly before embarking on another. It would avoid all the blame and resentment towards the next partner, which has surely got to better for the second wife too.

@IWannaSeeHowItEnds

But that's the thing though - why is the person who says they were unhappy, more reliable than the one who says everything was fine?

Because obviously someone is more of an authority about how they themselves felt than somebody else is?

And because like I said, it isn't only my partner saying these things, it's outside parties as well?

And because there's very little potential for two people with such extremely oppositional personalities and views to have been happy together without one person making all the compromises?

If someone tells you they are unhappy in their relationship do you really just say "no you're not because I feel fine"? Or even just in general, if someone says "I'm not happy" do you just say "that's not true because I am"? No wonder you are so at odds with people choosing for themselves to leave, if so.

And they are both passing on conflicting messages to their dc. It's human nature to want to believe the best of yourself and to think you didn't do anything wrong in either leaving or being left.

If you weren't happy with someone and you don't want to be with them now then you didn't do anything wrong by leaving. My partner doesn't need to think the best of himself to know that, he is the ultimate authority on whether he wants to be with her.

There is a big difference between telling your child "I left because I wasn't happy in my romantic relationship but we all still love you" (without going into detail about all the many ways he feels his sons mum is a terrible, toxic person and the various ways in which she made him miserable,) and telling your child "mummy and daddy loved each other very much and were very happy and an evil witch cast a spell on him just to ruin your life."

No mention of the fact that daddy told her very clearly many times that he was not happy and she refused to listen or take any of it on board. No mention of the fact that daddy had been laying plans for a long time and trying to find a way he could support himself when he left because she had made sure she was in control of all of their finances and her family were so unpleasant and aggressive they were bound to, and did, threaten him with violence if he didn't leave town after leaving her.

It was much easier for her to convince herself that because daddy got in a new relationship soon after leaving that meant it was all down to me, rather than it being because daddy had emotionally checked out of the relationship a long time ago just like he told her when she put her fingers in her ears and refused to listen because it was easier for her.

Fair enough if denial makes her feel better, but my point was that passing on this denial as fact to her son has confused and upset him many times, because he is being made to feel like he should have a problem with us when he himself doesn't.

THAT is why putting all the blame on what you perceive to be the OW when there are kids involved, can cause serious problems.

I agree with AE18's post. When I left my ex H I'd been telling him for literally years that I was unhappy. I met him when I was 18 and he'd isolated me from friends and family and I was financially trapped. It was only when my abusive dad died that I was able to reach out to my mum and arrange to move in with her for a bit.

However my ex was so content with the way things were that my concerns about our marriage bounced off him like water off a duck's back. Despite me repeatedly telling him how unhappy I was he thought I would and should snap out of it and realise that we had a good life together (and on paper we had a lovely house, he was a decent catch etc). When I finally left him he was as floored and devastated as if it'd come totally out of the blue. He'd no doubt say I had rewritten history about our relationship and anyone who heard his side would think I was a heartless bitch.

Although I have never once cheated and have seen the devastation infidelity causes I think things are rarely black and white enough to involve your kids in the details. My DSCs mother cheated and left their dad but they still think it was a mutual split. Much as I wish they knew the truth what purpose would it serve other than to destroy their relationship with their mother?

I guess I just don't like exit affairs and think it would be much better for the children if people ended a relationship cleanly before embarking on another. It would avoid all the blame and resentment towards the next partner, which has surely got to better for the second wife too.

Whilst I agree with you in principle there are many, many second wives whose partner's ex hates them just by virtue of them being with their ex, nothing more. I rub along just fine with pretty much everyone in real life yet my DH's ex actively dislikes me - this was even before I got to know my DSCs so it wasn't because I was sticking my nose in (and I worked entirely round DH's contact schedule so he wasn't dropping them for me or anything like that).

Likewise even though I left my exH I was still upset when he found a new partner. Again to reiterate I would never condone an affair but break ups of long term relationships are often messy even without a third party coming along.