OW get more of the blame than OM (in other words society is sexist in this day and age)

[Rainbowhairdontcare]

As inspired by the other thread currently going on. People only mention sex, bit nobody mentioned love.

I know of two cases (a brother and sister). Both had short lived affairs (around three months), their family knew both were miserable in their respective marriages.

When she filed for divorce her exH recognised their marriage was done and everybody moved on quite easily, their DDs are happy and her partner moved in about 7 months ago. Her mom isn't very happy with their relationship but that's s different matter, nobody pointed fingers as to who was at fault for the breakdown of the marriage.

The brother on the other hand, didn't have the same "luck" his exW blamed the OW for everything and still does even though years have passed and she's about to get married again. She condoned her exSIL saying she was unhappy so understandably looked for it somewhere else. He has now married the OW and are expecting their first baby together. The mum is happy with this relationship but it might be that she's excited about the baby. The rest of the family seem to think they're well suited too.

I think society punishes more the OW, she's most of the times the "homewrecker", the OM seldom gets mentioned and in any case the "adulterous" wife is always to blame. Both are sexist attitudes IMO.

Lifecraft, that is such a lazy and ridiculous post. Coined by that great womaniser 'philosopher' Goldsmith. Posters keep posting it and they keep sounding very silly. It is a fallacy and actually, when posters like you post it to cheated-on women, they do them a tremendous disservice.

Oh ffs, you are missing the point of the saying. It's not quoted at the cheated on woman, it's quoted to the woman he was cheating with.

Basically, when a man cheats on his first wife with the woman who becomes his second wife, in time he will cheat on her. That's because he's a cheater.

He used to have a wife and a girlfriend, he leaves his wife and marries his girlfriend. He now only has a wife, and there's a vacancy for a new girlfriend.

No. You are missing the point. Spectacularly.

Marriages break up because they do. Whether somebody is a second wife from having been an OW or not is irrelevant. You and countless others are working on the assumption (and fondest wish) that the new marriage will be miserable as the OW (always) deserves it.

There is no vacancy for a new girlfriend; why bother to marry the OW at all if that's the case? But sometimes affair partners marry - and are happy. Sorry if that jars with your narrative.

I was an OW many years ago (I wasn't married). Years later, I was cheated on and my relationship ended; my ex married the OW and they are happy together (more years than we were together). They're better suited. I'm happily married myself. I would never be an OW again, it's a dreadful thing to do and experience.

I give you the history so that you'll understand when I tell you that the 'creates a vacancy' nonsense is just lazy and unhelpful trope.

OM doesnt exist
The woman cheats. Is a cheater and thats the end of it

Not necessarily.
It's just that you dont get all the betrayed husbands writing about it or talking about it.

In many cases, they see their wife's affair as a reflection of their sexual inadequacies and feel embarrassed...so would rather keep it quiet.

OM face a good beating from the husband. .. not that violence is ever acceptable.

It's actually rather dangerous to sleep with another man's wife.

The BH can really blow things up with revenge and in many cases, finds a way to blame the OM for seducing his wife. It's easier to blame the other person.

Although the saying of when he marries the mistress, he creates a vacancy... in reality that's really not true.

It depends on whether he's a serial cheat. Depends on why he cheated and much more. Many OW/OM go on to have long and happy marriages... I know its nicer to think it all falls apart...but

You and countless others are working on the assumption (and fondest wish) that the new marriage will be miserable as the OW (always) deserves it.

It's not the fact that the other woman deserves it, it's the fact that he is a cheater. And is likely to cheat again. The saying is an anti man saying, not an anti woman one. It's just a warning to the OW, if you pick up a snake, don't complain when it bites you. You knew it was a snake when you picked it up.

It's a slap-down to the OW (new wife) however you like to dress it up. Created by one of the biggest misogynists of the time. He's vile and it's vile... and the fact that it's always spouted off by women is vile.

There are different types of affair though and different types of cheater. There's the type who feels entitled to sleep around, married or not, the cowardly exit cheater and the kind who falls on love with someone more compatible.
The cheating is still wrong but the experiences and outcomes for the 'other women' will be different.

Just out of interest, what's the snappy 'phrase' for the cheating man then? I mean, he married somebody who was prepared to cheat with him so it stands to reason (what a misnomer that is!) that she'll be needing a new boyfriend then, having married him?

I loath the platitudes that people said to me (as the cheated on partner). That 'vacancy' one and the 'karma one' the most. Said by people who like to think they mean well but actually, have nothing of value to say. It's not soothing to anybody who hears the nonsense of them clanging in their head.

Before anybody points out 'karma' because I was the OW, I've been happy and lucky ever since. I've 'atoned' as best I can, and I'll never be in that position again but, despite what I was surely 'owed', I've been very fortunate. Karma, if it exists, hit me when I was a child. Perhaps it operates on a 'credit' system? Hadn't thought of that. All 'paid up' then> Urgh. How can anybody in custody of an operational brain keep blethering on about 'karma'?

I wish posters with nothing other than those two nonsensical sayings would just say nothing at all. I cringe when I see them posting that meaningless (but quite hurtful to the cheated on person) tripe.

Lying I think some men marry the mistress because they like being married. But men who are very selfish feel entitled to have an extra curricular love life as well.

I agree with that, IWanna but as you said in your other post, there are myriad reasons and the circumstances are not always 'one size fits all'. I'm still really good friends with my ex; that's because he didn't blame me for his cheating. In spite of the very indecent cheating, he's a very decent person and I have no feelings of ill-will towards him and his wife.

I think your last post is resonant with me because of my own experience; some men are 'eternal bridegrooms' and if they can't make it work in their existing marriage, seek another commitment to see if they can do 'better'. And sometimes, they do.

Cheating isn't ever right, no argument from me. It's selfish and destructive behaviour. However, it's not the only selfish and destructive behaviour exhibited by human beings... the the one most pilloried.

Karma is great. I can mug an old women coming out of the post office and steal her pension with complete impunity, safe in the knowledge that the wicked old cow had it coming. If she'd been nicer, it wouldn't have happened to her.

Well, you do you, Lifecraft, I'll do me. You illustrated my point perfectly even if you didn't mean to. I'll leave you to it.

OM are every bit as bad as OW, and I think if it seems like people on MN tend to focus more on the 'wrongs' of OW more it is only because the majority of posters here (though not all) are female and are more likely to have had experience of being on the receiving end of the actions of OW than OM - but perhaps on more Male orientated forums you might find the opposite is true? I personally hold both OM and OW in equal contempt for their behaviour and the hurt they are partly responsible for causing (and yes the cheating husband or wife is mostly at fault). I have a friend whose DH's male 'friends' have all tried it on with her behind his back at one time or another and I find them an absolute bunch of slimey reptiles - completely two faced, not true friends, out for themselves, just horrible people. Men and women can be just as bad as each other imo. However, when it comes to the injured party in an affair and how they deal with it, who they blame, who they hold responsible, I don't think anybody has the right to judge them for their feelings or to say who they 'should' be blaming or lashing out at, it's nobody else's business and I say that as somebody who found out about OW and my DH just a month ago and am very much in the middle of this myself. When you are the one on the receiving end it is emotional hell, you are up and down like a rollercoaster, and however you feel from one day to the next can be different - and who you hold accountable for putting you in that pain is your own business and not for others to judge.

Mugging people is illegal. Having a consensual relationship isn't, however much you might try to build up ridiculous social codes to make women outcasts if they dare to step out of line.

My parents married young. My mum then fell in love with my dad's best friend. She left to be with him and they were married for twenty five years. My dad remarried too and has been with his wife for thirty years now.

Mum and dad were together less than ten years.

People get married and regret it. Often, they coast along until something happens to make them face how incompatible they are. That's often meeting someone else.

How else could human nature possibly work? You actually want to ostracise anyone who doesn't madly love the person they married in x year until they die? If a MAN ie the prize walked out on his wife and kids because he no longer wanted to be there what would society say to that?

Face reality. Sex and relationships aren't tidy and correct, and you can't make them be.

Magicpaintbrush I agree with you 100%. All I can say is that as much as you're in pain and think both are the scum of the Earth, children should remain as out of it as possible. I've seen the effects of both, the betrayed spouse who dragged the DC into a whirlwind of hate and those who were able to separate their spouse's betrayal to their role as parents.

Yes absolutely, children are the innocent ones caught up in things like this - to keep it from them is priority No.1 in such situations, though it is really tough to put on a brave face for them when you feel like you are dying inside. They don't deserve the fall out from what the idiot adults in their life have been getting up to behind closed doors.

That's because men are creatures without free will that are guided by their dick. The other woman uses his magical powers and how after the husband and the poor man is just unable to say no. He really is the victim. A married woman should know better than to start an affair. She makes a decision to cheat and goes after the poor single man who has no choise but to have sex. He really is the victim in all of this.

As a betrayed spouse myself I am going to be completely honest about my feelings: I KNOW logically that it is my DH who is mainly to blame for the hurt and betrayal I've been suffering, I do know that, logically I can see that, BUT before this all happened I already had love for him. I had no feelings of love for the OW. So now, as illogical as it may be, a lot of my anger and hatred is directed at her, because my feelings towards her are not complicated by love as they are for my DH, therefore I can honestly say that right now I feel that if she died tomorrow I would be glad. I'm fully aware that it makes more sense to hate my DH, but I'm a human being and my emotions aren't a logical thing and I can't help them. All I know is that I'm in a huge amount of pain and she has done things with and to my DH that only I should have, she has intruded into my marriage and not given a fuck about me or my DD, and therefore I have feelings of utter hatred for her and wish her pain. If I had cheated on DH with another man then I wouldn't blame him if he felt like that about OM - I wouldn't cheat though so it's a moot point. I mean at the end of the day we can all sit around bleating about who should be blaming who and what they ought to be feeling, but human emotions aren't an exact science and what people feel when they discover a betrayal is personal to them, no-one else. Nobody outside their situation has the right to say a deceived spouse is wrong to feel whatever they are feeling.

Sadly I am at an age where many of the couples whose weddings I attended in my 20s have now split up. Some of these divorces were mutual and amicable, most were not and involved affairs. Can't say i have noticed much difference in the judgements made towards the straying partner based on their gender. Bith parties have lost friendships, lost contact with family members and been labeled all manner of derogatory things.

All I can say is that as much as you're in pain and think both are the scum of the Earth, children should remain as out of it as possible.

This reminds me of something I read recently on another forum.

18 yo is told by his dad that he is the product of his mum's affair and he (dad) won't be paying his university fees as he did with his older 2 as he's not his DS.

He said he told his mum to save up and make arrangements for the future.

Despite remaining in the marriage and treating him like a son, he was left high and dry. Such a shame that he came to find out this way and now feels crap about it.

Much as you say leave the kids our of it, it's not always so easy to do so and depending on their age, they shouldn't be lied to about a parents infidelity IMO.

Enough lies have already been told.

I think this is a bit shit. You are essentially putting the fallout of the affir at the woman's feet because she didnt react well enough and graciously enough.

Personally, I think yabu.

I think the wife is more likely to blame the ow. But the advice to the wife is to stop hating her, she isnt relevant. The husbands actions are. But it's not surprise that people dont want to believe that their partner was just a liar. Its easier to believe, the other person made them do it.

The woman in your situation was lucky that her ex husband felt the same and didnt feel hurt that she was lying to him. The second reaction was far more like the normal reaction. I know loads of situations where the woman has cheated and the man hasnt taken it on the chin.

@Magicpaintbrush

I think a lot of BSs feel the way you do. Nobody would expect you to have positive feelings towards the OW....not in a million years, but it does sometimes seem like the BS places all the blame on the OW/OM.

she has intruded into my marriage and not given a fuck about me or my DD
Another perspective on this comment...If the man you married and vowed fidelity to you, didn't give a fuck about you and his DD...bis own flesh and blood...why would you expect that of a complete stranger?

Doesn't make sense does it.

If your DH/DW hasn't got your back...... then that's the beginning of the issue.

It's easier to hate the person you don't know, because you want to believe he/she was acting out of character and wouldn't have done this normally.

A person only intrudes on a marriage, where they are allowed to.

That's awful, magicpaintbrush. I don't blame you for hating whoever you hate. But I do blame disinterested parties who are not themselves involved in other people's relationships but who heap judgement out according to the sex of the interlocutors.

If I was cheated on, I'd be emotional and irrational. Any reasonable person can see that. But it's not reasonable to heap irrational hatred onto a person or a trope simply because it's easy or makes you feel safer in your own relationship.

I don't personally accept that marriage is an impenetrable institution and that those within it are sacred. If others believe that then that's up to them. But I've been to enough weddings to know that people marry their human, flawed partners and that they continue being human and flawed afterwards.

It isn't rational, no, but then human emotions can be irrational, especially in the face of a trauma, and I do feel traumatised from what has happened. That is exactly how I feel. Logically you can know one thing but can't help feeling something else.

Sandy I don't think they should be lied to, age appropriate explanations is what I think is best. Not dragging the other parent and OW/I'm into the mud especially if they're to become their SPs.

A man who cheats is often said to 'have his head turned'. No. A cheating man turns his own head.