Many therapists / psychologists have issues?

[user87382294757]

I mean, unresolved issues? The ones I have met all seem to. One we know has a real problem with hoarding animals for example.

Should they not have sorted their own issues, through therapy for example before being there to help others?

Have others experiences this also or is it just me?

I'm sorry to say I can validate what pp's have said about abusive people actively using these courses and qualifications to hide and aid their abuse.

I got kicked off a course where a fellow student regularly sexually harassed me while telling me I was too uptight to become a therapist as he would walk up behind me and start kissing my neck...when I expressed concerns the college supported him as he hadn't really done anything 🙄

2 years later my then fellow students forwarded me a local newspaper report where this same bastard had been jailed for 4 years! For sexual harassment and assault

AGBforever, that's horrendous! I'm so sorry.

I can only echo what many posters have said; I trained over four years towards an accredited counselling diploma, and I can honestly say that every single one of us was pretty fucked-up.

I completely agree with you, btw!

I met and briefly socialised/dated a guy I met on a training retreat who was prettyy high up and well-known in the therapy biz. Something felt off and I backed away...Only to see his face on the front of the Liverpool Echo

Lots of people decide to be therapists based on their own trauma to help others.
I know a few ex drug addicts who retrained in the field to help others, yes I agree some have issues from past trauma.

The reason I'm asking about the term 'clinical psychotherapist' is I'm not sure that it is a real term, but one used to sound like someone is a clinical psychologist? Clinical psychologists have doctorates. I once saw someone for a couple of sessions who called herself a clinical psychotherapist (and who charged accordingly) who wasn't just poor, but who was actively damaging. Fortunately I was switched on enough to realise this.

Thank .gid for your instincts BoF

Thank God that was supposed to say!

@AFistfulofDolores1 they do not practice counselling! You are completely wrong! I’m not surprised the general public is bemused by MH professionals when even a psych undergrad lacks this knowledge. What did you do for 3 years?!

And whilst you say ‘not inferior or superior, just different’, I’d rather pay to see a Clinical psych, who’s trained in a variety of therapeutic modalities and has a doctorate to indicate their level of training and supervised experience than a counsellor.

Had therapy as part of my training and have supervision.

My cousin is a psychoanalyst at a London Hospital. I fear for the mental health of her patients. I’m pretty certain she has Histrionic Personality Disorder. She is one of the most disconcerting people I’ve come across.

I did a Higher Certificate in Counselling with the aim of going through to Diploma and maybe degree level but after the Certificate felt I didn’t have what it took to really help people. However many of the students on the course are now unleashed on the unsuspecting public. One was a misogynistic twat, another was unable to do many of the role plays due to issues he had around abuse the poor man, another was verging on manic at times. It is a very worryIng thought that some of these people are now responsible for helping others.

My personal trainer has never had to lose weight. He considers that a weakness, an experience many of his clients are going through that he lacks. If he were obese and could not run the training, or if he didn't have any knowledge of nutrition and exercise, that obviously wouldn't help. But he has the knowledge, just not the personal experience.

I can't see how this is much different!

@Notmydalek I think the problem is that most Counselling or Psychotherapy courses aren’t very selective. It’s not competitive enough to get in. If you can afford the training you appear to be in.
University courses where I live churn out loads of ‘qualified’ counsellors every year. I’ve supervised some unfortunately. They have a very surface understanding and application of theory, lack academic rigour and some were downright dangerous. The Uni didn’t want to know however as they wanted the students fees.

To a PP, I'm not sure selflessness is an ideal qualification for a therapist. A selfless therapist is likely to soon be a burnt-out one. Boundaries, including around one's own life and MH, are key to working successfully. (The best therapists are both boundaried and empathic - which is not about saying 'there, there' and validating-at-all-costs - IIRC Carl Rogers defined it as 'unconditional positive regard' for the client/patient as a fellow human being).

OYBBK, I should imagine (not in UK so not sure of exact terminology) a 'clinical psychotherapist' is either a clinical psychologist who is also, i.e. additionally trained in psychotherapy or a psychotherapist practising in a clinical setting.

Disclaimer: this is not my career field.

A Clinical Psychologist is already trained in psychotherapy- they do not need additional training.
No idea what a Clinical psychotherapist is- sounds made up tbh

ChiefHopper that’s really worrying and certainly backs up my experience on a university based course. It was accredited by BACP so I thought it stood a better chance of being a good course with suitable students on it. But bloody hell there was a significant number of very troubled and troubling people there. This was over 15 years ago so the pressure to get the money in by any means has probably worsened the problem of these courses accepting people who shouldn’t be in a 20 mile radius of a counselling course.

@Notmydalek it’s a shame because there are good counsellors/psychotherapists out there but they seem to be drowning in a sea of useless ones. The courses need to be far more selective and academically rigorous before letting anyone loose with vulnerable people’s mental health but Higher Education is a business these days. Mind you if that was the standard of the counselling degree students then just imagine the quality of those with just the diploma.

I know quite a few people who have mental illnesses either in the past or currently who want to become therapists or mental health nurses - I guess in a lot of cases to try to give back the help they personally received. I think most hope to be recovered themselves before starting working, but obviously there's still a risk that certain things could be a trigger to them and bring back up old feelings.

@ChiefHopper

I’m not sure I agree with you about the need for greater academic rigour on counselling/psychotherapy courses. Being academically capable and qualified does not necessarily improve your clinical work.

I have several prof. qualifications including an MSc in psychodynamic work. The MSc was very challenging academically but placed little importance on practical skills or the personal qualities that are needed to be a safe and helpful counsellor. There were people there that could write a publishable paper, but completely lacked basic people skills, self awareness or empathy. At the opposite end of the scale was my original counselling training at Diploma level, much less academically demanding but with a huge emphasis on skills practice, self reflection, experiential work and personal development.

I think the difference was that the Diploma training was sponsored and organised by a national charity. At the end of the course all passing trainees were committed to working with the charities clients for at least two years. The benefit and safety of those clients was always the main focus of the training, closely followed by the safety and well being of the counsellors. The MSc was delivered by a good university but they was a reluctance to fail people who were succeeding academically but were deemed personally unsuitable, presumably because it involved unprovable personal judgements on the part of the academic staff but also because the uni would lose out on their fees.

I know of two people whose tutors recommended they leave the course but who were so determined and/or deluded they carried on regardless. Both qualified and are practicing now. Hopefully they present differently when in the counselling room than they did in lecture halls and tutor groups.

A PP asked about animal hoarding en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_hoarding

With the person in question it is about rescuing many animals. e.g. farm animals as well as pets, acquiring land and being unable to manage looking after them.

@namechangeninjaevervigilant in my undergrad experience the less academically able students are unable to engage with critical thinking. They are unable to provide clinical formulations of a clients problems which is concerning because if you cannot formulate how can you make an intervention.
Empathy is not enough.

Undergrad?! Don’t know where that came from, meant previous

ChiefHopper you’ve summed up the difficulties I had with being unable to make effective interventions. I could empathise, I could get the basics of issues that were used during in role plays but I couldn’t then go on to provide an insightful/beneficial intervention that might help someone move forward. That’s why I didn’t go on after Higher Certificate level. I’m not at all academic and wouldn’t say I had enough critical thinking ability to have been of use. The scary part is many people on my course didn’t seem to have my level of awareness with regards to my own strengths and weaknesses and went on to diploma and beyond. There are possibly loads of people undergoing therapy and getting nothing more than empathy and their issues paraphrased back at them.

To complicate things even further, some clinical psychologists will not have had much training in a range of psychotherapies, depending on their particular training course. For example I'm a therapist in the NHS and work with many clinical and counselling psychologists, a couple of them aren't able to work with clients with PTSD as they haven't been trained in an evidence based approach for it. As a therapist with only a masters and a pgdip, I am better qualified to see those clients than some of the psychologists who have doctorates 🤷🏻‍♀️

And clinical psychologists definitely don't have to have personal therapy, counselling psychologists, therapists and counsellors definitely do.

I brought my 8 year old son to a child psychologist after his school asked me to have him evaluated for ADHD.Her practice rooms were completely sterile, stark and unfriendly .She sat there like a ramrod in the chair and looked very disapprovingly at my son as he was bouncing on one of those swing back type chairs .I said nothing to him as I wanted to see her reaction. in the next moment she asked loudly and in front of my son "have you ever thought that he has ADHD" .My son was absolutely devastated and walked out with him crying and saying "Im not crazy Mom ,I will do anything but please don't send me to her."He was right and I didn't. Now at 19 he is the most well balanced ,lovely boy, but due to his diagnosis we have had a lot of going and frying between psychiatrists and psychologists and there was only one who I felt knew what she was talking about and was able to build up a rapport with my son.The rest were totally removed from reality in my opinion.