Many therapists / psychologists have issues?

[user87382294757]

I mean, unresolved issues? The ones I have met all seem to. One we know has a real problem with hoarding animals for example.

Should they not have sorted their own issues, through therapy for example before being there to help others?

Have others experiences this also or is it just me?

There's a huge difference between having "issues" you are aware of and have extensively worked on in personal therapy, and having "issues" but completely denying you do.

The first group I think make for very skilled therapists, the second definitely not.

This is why I tend to suggest to people looking for therapy to go to someone trained in the psychodynamic or psychoanalytic model as the training tends to much more rigorous and the personal therapy requirement much bigger. Even a clinical psychologist or psychiatrist will not usually have had personal therapy. I knew a psychiatrist through work who had no idea of his own blind spots even though he was of course a qualified doctor. The most problematic trainings are often the "person-centred" ones at local colleges where there is only a requirement to have 10 sessions of personal therapy and basically everyone qualifies from the course.

Clinical and Counselling psych’s will have therapy as part of training. And to correct an earlier poster many Counselling psych’s will and do train in the NHS like clinical. They have to self fund though and it’s still bloody hard to get in.

The BACP holds standards for counseling and psychotherapy- to be on their register you have to meet specific criteria. To answer your original question, probably Yanbu, it's not uncommon to teach what you need to learn. This doesn't make you a bad or good therapist, depending on how it's handled.

Everyone has issues. Psychotherapists are required to have regular 'supervision' by another psychotherapist (who will also have supervision).

If a therapist's issues impact on those of a client, they must refer them elsewhere. However you cannot expect them never to have a problem. Indeed, their own problems can help them to empathise. They should not, however, discuss them with a client because that could put the client in the position of (almost) being a counsellor. Generally, only fairly innocuous stuff is disclosed by a counsellor.

(I've never heard of 'hoarding animals' - do you mean this person rescues animals, runs a sanctuary or something like?)

@Outnotdown and @Graphista have some really good points.

I trained as a therapist. Nearly all of us had dysfunctional childhoods, ranging from moderate to severe. I think we all knew that this was possibly the prime motivator to study therapy: you become fascinated with human behaviour, first, as a survival tactic; and second, as a means by which to explore yourself and then others.

The trick is being a therapist who is able to accept responsibility enough to be self-aware - or to regain self-awareness as quickly as possible.

Alarming, but true: there are no requirements for calling yourself a therapist. There are accrediting bodies, but they have no legal clout: all they can do is throw you out of their organisation. And being part of an accrediting body, or bodies, does not guarantee that you're a good therapist.

That being said, I've been privileged enough to work with a few of them, personally and professionally. The relationship is never perfect. Never. And that is the point: to learn how to relate to someone who will at times disappoint you, anger and frustrate you, but who hopefully a) provides a safe space to explore your hidden thoughts and feelings, and b) is consistently present, both within a session, and from session to session.

I was coming to say that not all therapists and psychologists have to have their own therapy (unfortunately) but I see a few PPs have already said this.
I don't understand why, as a therapist you wouldn't want to have your own therapy - it worries me.
I am a psychologist / therapist and I think people like me can be drawn to the profession partly due to our own struggles with mental health but as someone else has said, who honestly doesn't have any issues? It's important to be aware of your issues and maybe to keep working on them in order to be able to help others. I don't think they need to be resolved necessarily.
I have had shedloads of therapy and I hope that means I'm a better and safer therapist.

I also agree that psychodynamic, psychoanalytical, and analytical psychology are all generally much more rigorous than other approaches (i.e. person-centred, CBT, counselling).

For example, my training was in psychodynamic psychotherapy.

We had to be in therapy once a week, though many of us chose to be in two or three times a week.

We had supervision every week.

We had to undertake 300 training hours as trainee therapists - and we generally couldn't start seeing clients until we had been at the institute for 6 months.

The training itself (both practical and theoretical) lasted 3 years full time, or 4 years part time. That only qualified us to see someone once a week.

If we wanted to see someone twice a week or more, it required a further qualification of several years. Psychoanalysis or Analytical Psychology, for example, is about seven years of training; asks that you are in your own analysis for at least two years - after which time you can see someone up to five times a week (and, yes, there are people who go to analysts that often, and sometimes for years).

Can I ask what specifically a Clinical Psychotherapist is please? I'm struggling to find a definition for that exact title.

@MajesticWhine if you were a qualified practitioner psychologist I.e. could practice various therapeutic modalities ( such as a clinical or counselling psychologist), you would have to have had therapy as part of your training.
I am one of the above and personal therapy is prerequisite.

I'm not sure about Clinical Psychotherapy, @OhYouBadBadKitten, but I think Clinical Psychology is someone who works clinically, i.e. diagnoses and treats mental illness, but who doesn't necessarily practise psychotherapy (unless they're additionally trained in that paradigm).

I was devastated, as a Psychology undergrad, to realise in my second year that my degree in no way equipped me professionally to be a psychotherapist. That was quite a misapprehension on my part!

Nut job.... Unhinged.... Is this how we are talking about mental illness in 2019. Ffs.

A clinical psychologist does practice psychotherapy; a range of modalities not just one approach. How else do you think they treat mental illness?

I’m appalled to hear some people posting here have had such a negative experience of therapy. Not all mental health professionals are suited to their work. A few are dangerous. Most, however, are competent and conscientious. I’ve worked with four supervisors so far and not one would tell me something just to make me feel good - if they did, I’d walk! My therapy training may not be psychoanalytic but it’s taken me five years, was rigorous and, in fact, it never ends as ongoing training is a condition of professional registration. That said, therapy is a relational process not just a set of theories. Definitely shop around for a therapist, and always choose someone you feel comfortable with.

@Graphista I had life changing CBT via video conferencing from OCDLA. It was not cheap at all, but completely changed my life. I too had no clue where to find help after having a few sessions from the NHS, which had helped a bit but I felt they didn't really understand what I needed and also could only have a few when I needed more. I contacted OCDLA after reading their Mindfulness Workbook for OCD, I can't stress how much the therapy has changed my life for the better, in fact I have my life back. Good luck finding something

A clinical psychotherapist will be a member of the BAP (British Association Psychotherapists). The training for this is at the Tavistock Centre in Swiss Cottage (though there may be other trainings that also qualify)?
There is a two-year MA programme (part-time). I have completed the basis for child psychotherapy training - it required a weekly infant observation of a baby from newborn to age two; the same if a pre-school child for one year, plus barious theory seminars and a work-based seminar in which students take it in turns to present a situation from their work. There are examined essays on each element, plus a dissertation. You are also required to be working in some capacity with children for the duration of the course.
Clinical training takes at least four years and placements are highly competitive. You are required to be in therapy at least four (preferably five) times a week with an accredited BAP psychotherapist. Your client work is supervised and the training leads to a doctorate. It’s ectremely rigorous - not to mention expensive!

Of course they do! Most people in the caring professions come into these professions because they have faced difficulties themselves, or been close to someone who has. It is not a bad thing for your therapist to be human and understand a little about human suffering. They have lots of training though, so they will likely be excellent at supporting you and your life (even if they struggle with their own life - many therapists are selfless and put others in front of themselves. Very few I know would prioritise themself and their own mental health).

"Nut job.... Unhinged.... Is this how we are talking about mental illness in 2019. Ffs." Don't even get me started! There are numerous disablist posts on mn re mh. I used to report rigorously but tbh I've given up now!

Serious question - what would those of you who are qualified advise in terms of how to find a good qualify, qualified and experienced therapist?

I personally think there's nothing wrong with mh professionals who have difficulties of their own, it can mean they have greater understanding of how it feels to be mentally ill of course.

But I do think the industry needs massively overhauled in terms of regulation particularly with regard to who can call themselves what.

It's shocking that pretty much anyone can set up in business and call themselves a "counsellor" or "therapist" with very little if any training let alone thought given to the issue of mh professionals having their own pathology - whether prior to entering the job or as a result of the understandable stresses of doing such a job.

@bigshiplittleboat -
"Graphista I had life changing CBT via video conferencing from OCDLA" THANK YOU SO MUCH for responding to my plea. Who are OCDLA? I'm not familiar. I have been majorly let down by my Cmht, I've been basically phoning/approaching anyone I can think of to try and get help. I'm currently over 18 months housebound as a result of my illness and I'm so so fed up!

I have found mindfulness marginally helpful in the past too, so I'd love to try the book too.

being part of an accrediting body, or bodies, does not guarantee that you're a good therapist

I'm glad someone in the profession made this point. Having a dangerous person inside your head can do irreparable damage.

Btw: The Tavistock has its issues regarding child safeguarding ongoing, does it not? Or is that a different Tavistock?

@Graphista it stands for OCD Los Angeles, they really are experts. And you can get the book off amazon - I got the kindle version for a few pounds I think

Yes @ChiefHopper, I am a counselling psychologist and did have to have therapy. Clinical psychologist ms don't have to though. At least not according to several of my clin psych colleagues. And Cbt therapists don't have to either.

@ChiefHopper - As far as I can see, they practise counselling. Not the same.

Not inferior or superior, btw, but typically different.

Therapists/counsellors are not regulated in the same way and whilst they may have as many issues as psychologists, they have presumably gone into the profession for a reason- to support others

My ex did counselling and psychotherapy training and completed the counselling years only with an actual qualification. He refers to himself professionally as both a counsellor and a psychotherapist. He also did supervision training but not the essays and practise required to receive the qualification and his website offers supervision. He has even been done by the Advertising Standards people for saying he was a member of the BACP when he isn’t.

The field is self-regulatory which is problematic when there are people around who will take advantage. I can only urge people to seek clarification of training, qualifications and insurance before embarking on a course of therapy with anyone working privately. It is a minefield and not everyone is in it for the right reasons. For my ex, it is about being seen to be ‘kind and caring’ and because of the lack of regulation, he gets to do and say whatever he wants with just about no comeback whatsoever. He doesn’t care about anything other than the £45 an hour you’ll pay him in cash.

"it stands for OCD Los Angeles, they really are experts. And you can get the book off amazon - I got the kindle version for a few pounds I think" are you American/living in America then?

I've downloaded samples of the book you recommended and the tips and tricks book too.