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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to be frustrated with the abuse of the NHS

106 replies

MrsFrankCastle · 27/07/2019 14:35

www.wakefieldexpress.co.uk/health/nhs-asks-for-common-sense-after-woman-attends-pinderfields-hospital-a-e-with-broken-fingernail-1-9901334?fbclid=IwAR00MYep6y1lX4mHKqnRYCWIlamHiyfs4NMnS3WOAO4p6G_BLLoRVPM4Pdw

This case just highlights the issues we have with the NHS and being over worked. I love the NHS(I am a NHS worker) and thank god the people involved had the sense to turn this person away!

The Dr involved did say that people need to be re educated about the use of the NHS but how do we do this? Do we share stories of what we consider abuse of the NHS in the hope that other people read them and never make the same decisions?

OP posts:
AvocadosBeforeMortgages · 28/07/2019 00:18

@Graphista The issue was that I was part of a row of a few houses that was in local authority A and postcode 2. The local authority border was at the bottom of the back garden and the postcode border was split down the street directly at the front of my house.

Some GPs would take people only in postcode area 1. Some GPs would take people only in local authority B. Some only took people from within a specific set of streets. No one would take people in A & 2. One even said they'd take people on my street, but only the odd numbers - I was in an even numbered house.

There was no joined up thinking at all - they all had their own criteria. There was technically one GP that would take me, but I wasn't allowed to register there unless I booked a GP appointment there to have my weight and blood pressure etc checked, but there was only one GP at that surgery and the next appointment was two months away (and then you'd have to book a second appointment if you wanted any actual healthcare) so I scrapped that idea - it was clearly designed to limit the number of people signing up.

All the while I did actually need to see someone because the left side of my left arm and hand had gone totally numb, but I was trying to see a GP because it was neither an accident nor an emergency.

Graphista · 28/07/2019 02:01

Avocados that is utterly bonkers!!

Who the hell comes up with this bullshit? It serves nobody and very likely as we've said means patients either not receiving care (and becoming more sick) or having to access it in inappropriate and expensive ways

Oldsu · 28/07/2019 03:13

Sorry I am one of the ignorant patients who tried to abuse the NHS well according to the triage nurse in A&E that is, I had chronic diarrhoea for three weeks that's three weeks passing brown water and not eating, yes I DID got to my GP twice, to be told its a side effect of antibiotics and then it was a virus, when my husband came home from work and found me semi conscious on the sofa covered in liquid shit confused and in pain he got me to A&E, he made the mistake of asking if I could see a gastroenterologist, and we were accused of trying to see a specialist by the backdoor and to go back to my GP.

Managed to get an emergency apt the next day but it was with a Nurse, luckily it was a good one who got the GP in, the same GP who had told me I had a virus only a week before, so 24 hours after being thrown out of A&E I was back this time with a GP letter to PROVE I was actually ill.

Spent 11 days in Hospital 10 of which were in isolation and the diagnosis???? only a little thing called SEPSIS, luckily my hospital has a sepsis protocol, but that one day delay could have killed me, I should have been seen when I went to A&E not treated as a time waster

SinkGirl · 28/07/2019 06:57

Oldsu and Avocado that’s appalling.

Please, please make sure that things like this are always going through PALS as a complaint. They’re generally very good at sorting things out.

Stories like this are used to push a narrative that people are feckless wasters who could have a GP appointment but rock up to A&E instead. The number of people like this are vanishingly rare. In reality most people who access A&E inappropriately do so because they don’t know what else to do, can’t access an alternative and think they’re doing the right thing.

Also, the people who think that when illness occurs an imaginary buzzer starts flashing for EMERGENCY or NON-EMERGENCY. It can be incredibly hard to tell whether a GP is needed or an ambulance in many situations, and the hand wringing about abuse of A&E prevents some people from going when they should, as we see from posts here all the time. In reality, symptoms often don’t exactly match a list of red flags on the NHS website or the language used is too vague. When my boys were tiny, one contracted whooping cough. The NHS info said to seek urgent medical attention if your child is “struggling to breathe” but doesn’t explain what that looks like - I had no idea that his nostrils flaring and skin pulling in around his ribs were signs of struggling to breathe, I knew nothing about babies and I’ve never seen those things in an older person struggling to breathe.

We called an ambulance because he was suddenly floppy and unresponsive - until then we thought he had a cold. They told us he had bronchiolitis and it wasn’t bad enough to admit him yet so take him home and wait until it got worse. Except he already had all the symptoms they were telling me to look for.

We had five days of watching him round the clock, it stayed the same, it didn’t get worse or better. We took him back twice in those five days and they said don’t worry, it will pass. Took him for a NICU check up and his o2 level had dropped to 70%. They had to call an ambulance just to drive him across the road to A&E he was so sick, they wouldn’t even let me take him in the buggy. We spent 11 traumatic nights in HDU on high flow oxygen.

And the rib recessions? Enlarged adenoids. Nothing to do with the whooping cough because they didn’t go away until he was a year old. Every time he had a cold I was petrified because I didn’t know what signs to look for.

It’s sometimes hard with adults to know whether something is very serious or not, let alone children who can’t talk to you.

tinytemper66 · 28/07/2019 12:08

The last time I went to A&E I was advised to as I was on a school trip and fell on the ice rink.
I didn't believe I had done anything more than sprain my ankle badly.
However after an xray I had broken my leg above the ankle -the tibia.
I felt a fraud for being there until the doctor told me I had a nasty break.

EmeraldShamrock · 28/07/2019 12:57

I love the UK ambulance and 999 emergency show.
It shocks me the things people call an ambulance for, unless you are incapacitated , take a taxi ask a neighbour in some cases they could even take the bus with minor injury.
As a country we need to take more responsibility for our health in general, In Dublin you cant get a gp visit A&E is packed, at least 60% of patients issues are from unhealthy choices, smoking, over eating, getting pissed falling over, fighting, it would be so much easier if people made an effort to not use these services and took better care of themselves, for the real emergency gets priority.

tinytemper66 · 28/07/2019 13:04

I have to add that I had a taxi to A&E.

mindproject · 28/07/2019 13:09

When DD was very young her nursery called me to ask me to pick her up and take her to the doctor because she had 'touched some wood'. They were worried that she might have got a splinter, they couldn't see a splinter, but it was better to be safe than sorry. I picked her up and took her, but I felt like a total idiot as I told the doctor why we were there.

10 years on and DD hasn't been to the doctor since, she hasn't needed one as she is very healthy, but I am also now very wary about wasting NHS time.

BarbariansMum · 28/07/2019 13:54

Perhaps if they're so concerned about people wasting time in A&E they could ensure people could access a GP in a timely fashion, including at night or at the weekend? Ditto for wanting to "re-educate" people with chronic conditions - perhaps if they were receiving proper treatment they wouldn't reach breaking point and start using a&e. And dont get me started on the dirth of adequate mental health support....

BarbariansMum · 28/07/2019 13:57

Our local ambulance service spends a lot of time picking up elderly people from the floor. They shouldn't have to, its shit for the person involved who often has to wait for hours on the floor (low priority) but there isn't anyone else you can call.

U2HasTheEdge · 28/07/2019 13:57

It always seems to be the users of the NHS that gets the blame for the shitty NHS we have now.

I think people who are drunk or on drugs and need treatment should be billed

Like Graphista pointed out where would this end? Is it because you look down on them? Would you suggest billing the football player who injured himself on the field? I doubt it.

When I worked in A&E the vast majority of patients who were coming in intoxicated had a long history of mental health problems. The crisis team will not go to people who are under the influence so A&E is often their only option. They are just as 'sick' as others in A&E. We do have a SOS bus in the city for those who are drunk and ill on a night out.

When my husband has had MH crisis out of hours he has been sent to A&E because that is the only way he can see a MH nurse. Waiting in A&E for hours and hours when you are mentally unwell is awful.

It is not people like the fingernail lady who are responsible for our failing NHS. Your frustration would be better aimed at the system and not the individual users.

U2HasTheEdge · 28/07/2019 14:00

Our local ambulance service spends a lot of time picking up elderly people from the floor. They shouldn't have to, its shit for the person involved who often has to wait for hours on the floor (low priority) but there isn't anyone else you can call.

That is awful. We have a Swift response team for the elderly who have fallen. The service should be available everywhere.

Graphista · 28/07/2019 16:00

Yes I was gonna say about some places now have a service for dealing with fallen elderly/disabled but it's not national yet.

Crazy to leave that to the ambulance service. Both for the cost to Nhs and the suffering of patients who are (somewhat understandably) marked as low priority and then end up stuck for hours!

My parents are fortunate enough they can afford to pay for what I believe is a private company they're with, that responds to those alert bracelet/necklace things.

They initially got it for dad who is all but bed bound as there'd been a couple of instances of his falling when he somewhat ill advisedly decided he'd fetch food/drink himself from kitchen on very rare occasions when mum has popped out and not left him "set up" - she very rarely leaves him more than an hour. But her own mobility is now not so good too so she has an alert button too.

Unfortunately neither my sister nor I are necessarily in a position to help if this happens even though we live relatively nearby. I have a physical disability myself and am currently housebound too (mainly mh but also physical) I plain don't have the strength to help them up! I struggle just to stand some days myself.

My sister works, is a single mum and has young DC and also is physically disabled - so she'd have the potential palava of if it happened in the night of waking and dragging all the DC or having to leave work and driving over there and risking making her own disability worse by helping them up.

Bro lives hundreds of miles away so he can't help.

The company that does it the people are physically fit, nearby when on call and have equipment to help them if necessary (I don't think it would be with my parents as they're both quite slight, but I can appreciate sometimes it can be awkward depending how or where they've fallen)

They've only had to use it a couple times but it's good they have it if needed.

It's services and organisation like this which we really need now the boomers are getting well into the stage of being older and less fit/well (and yes I know before anyone says it nabalt but the eldest boomers are in their 70's now and people of that age are GENERALLY finding their health and fitness deteriorating, even some of the younger ones that can be the case - I'm only in my 40's and quite honestly I see adverts and info for certain products and services aimed at over 50's and think I'd find them bloody helpful now!)

HelenaDove · 28/07/2019 16:56

Is anyone else hoping that a neighbour knocks on @EmeraldShamrock door at 3am or is it just me.

PookieDo · 28/07/2019 17:14

Years ago when I was 38 weeks pregnant I had a new kitchen put in and I was cleaning the worktop and a huge lump of hard glue went down the side of my thumbnail from the underside of the worktop. I couldn’t get it out it was embedded in there and it was very painful.

The finger immediately went a weird purple colour and started to swell. I called the GP surgery and asked if a nurse could take a look at it, assuming they would have some implements to get it out. I walked down and They refused as I was heavily pregnant and sent me to the walk in centre (now doesn’t exist anymore). So I went there and they looked at my finger and then said you need to go to A&E because you are pregnant. By now it was throbbing so much and horrible colour and I just wanted this lump of glue out of my finger. I then went to A&E and sat there for 2 more hours. A junior doctor and nurse spent about an hour trying to get this thing out of my finger without breaking it up inside. They put a crap load of anaesthetic in my thumb it and cut it out in the end. The relief once it was out was amazing!

So I could have gone straight to A&E first but I will always try to start at the normal base route, even if it’s time consuming. Irritating as it is. I think a lot of people have less patience though and want issues resolved very quickly. That was probably what fingernail lady was thinking at the time

Cosentyx · 28/07/2019 17:22

I think people who are drunk or on drugs and need treatment should be billed

Where does that end? Do we start billing people who live too long and become burdensome on the NHS? People who used to smoke in their youth when they were foolish but quit and still developed cancer? People who led less than perfect lives throughout their years and became diseased? People with less than perfect genes who procreate? What a farcical idea.

Cosentyx · 28/07/2019 17:30

Is anyone else hoping that a neighbour knocks on @EmeraldShamrock door at 3am or is it just me.

Oh, Helena, you can read virtue signallers like this like books. Of course if their trollied neighbour banged on their door at 3am they'd open it with a loving smile (never mind if they have to get up for work at 6am or have their kids in there sleeping or are on their own as a female and it's some pissed 6ft, 3in bloke demanding entrance), welcome the stranger in, tend to their wounds, ferry them to A&E if need be (because they all have nice cars full of petrol, no one's skint and having to run on fumes till payday) leaving behind kids and no worries about getting to work, sit with them, make them tea, etc. 'Tis always thus on MN (funny lot including those who think 'you can just tell your boss you'll be coming in late because you had to do 'the kind thing' because of course, no one works in vital shift work where you can't just show up later. LOL. My husband drives a bus for a living, can you imagine how 'had to do the kind thing' would go over if he didn't show up for work on time to relieve the other driver who legally cannot drive anymore and has people waiting to get to work, appointments, etc.).

Zebraaa · 28/07/2019 18:22

@Andysbestadventure I agree! I saw a child brought in with a wheezy chest by his mum, then his dad turned up with a suitcase, then the grandparents turned up too. The kid hadn’t even been assessed yet and, if I remember correctly, was sent home with an inhaler. So unnecessary.

Graphista · 28/07/2019 20:06

PookieDo I actually winced just reading that! I bet that was bloody sore!!

Reminded me of my first ingrown toenail palava - started with a big galut in a supermarket queue taking 2 big and quick steps BACKWARDS to shout to his wife to get something and stood RIGHT on my foot in steel toecap boots! The nail initially split down the middle but slightly to one side. At first I cleaned and bandaged it myself and it seemed to be healing but then i caught it stepping out the bath one evening and the following day it was clearly swollen and possibly infected, I went to practice nurse who cleaned and dressed it and told me to keep foot up as much as possible, again slightly started to heal, but then for no obvious reason started to swell again, so tried to make GP appointment - no appointments for 2 weeks and they didn't class it as an emergency, took the appointment and dutifully called 8am every morning to TRY and get a cancellation or something. Continued swelling, I was keeping it clean and regularly redressing, to no avail, then on the Saturday morning I noticed it was also bleeding and leaking pus and it was INCREDIBLY painful. Called 111 later that day, they said keep an eye, call again if it gets worse or more symptoms. So did as directed, but then started feeling quite nauseous and had a temperature, called 111 again and at that point they said don't wait about get to a&e. I felt wary as I don't want to be a time waster or use resources unnecessarily, hours spent waiting of course (don't begrudge that understand the need to prioritise) and then when I got seen I got "told off" for not seeing gp surgery earlier - which I had! They didn't believe me because they were saying if I HAD been seen they'd have cut part of the nail off and given me antibiotics. I assured them I HAD seen nurse (one who could prescribe antibiotics too) but hadn't been able to get get a dr appointment. Much huffing and tutting...

Long story short that nail/toe was NEVER the same again and eventually I ended up having the nail removed permanently and by that point it was just a relief!

It's weird how "little" things can be so damn painful! As I've said I've had ovarian torsion, various surgeries I've also had bilateral pleural pneumonia, and been in a fairly serious car accident - but OMG! That Fucking toenail killed! Also made me very aware of just how much I was on my feet at that time in my life!

Cyclewidow46 · 28/07/2019 23:16

I agree with Pookidoo. People do not want healthcare when it is nice outside.

I'm a sonographer and when the weather is nice we'll have multiple patients who do not turn up for their appointments which have been booked for a few weeks. Last weekend when the weather was really hot I had 7 (out of 22) patients not turn up for their pelvic/ gynae scans on the Saturday. On rainy days you can guarantee every patient will turn up.

When these patients are given appointments they wonder why they have to wait so long (up to 6 weeks). So many appointment slots are wasted I think we should be able to charge those who don't cancel and just don't turn up.

EmeraldShamrock · 29/07/2019 01:24

Is anyone else hoping that a neighbour knocks on @EmeraldShamrock door at 3am or is it just me
Haha @HelenaDove
I'd have no problem if a neighbour needed my help at 3am.
My elderly neighbours knocked at 4am as their kettle tripped there electric, the husband is bed bound, I happily went in and reset it.
If you think I don't notice you sniffing around me for smart comments on threads I do notice.
Thankfully your opinion means very little to me. Wink

EmeraldShamrock · 29/07/2019 01:29

Oh to add I dont have a car. Virtual signals my arse, more like common sense when it comes to using resources when people can easily make their own way.
I guarantee if the NHS charged for ambulance even @HelenaDove would manage the walk.

LisaMontgomery · 29/07/2019 02:07

I'm another one who ended up in A&E due to lack of primary care.

Woke with tonsillitis on a Saturday, worse on Sunday, gp obviously not open (I get it quite often and always need antibiotics) and out of hours a minimum three hour wait with no seats. Saw a nurse on the Monday morning because "she can deal with prescriptions". She was worse than useless - I ended up being told off in A&E that afternoon because I should have come in sooner and was admitted via the HDU requiring surgery.

All could have been avoided if I'd been able to get antibiotics on the Saturday morning. It must have cost the nhs a fortune.

HelenaDove · 29/07/2019 03:04

*If you think I don't notice you sniffing around me for smart comments on threads I do notice"

Jesus talk about flattering yourself.

I dont click on a thread because of usernames i see posting on there i click on a thread because the subject matter interests me.

And the NHS dont charge for anbulances . We havent quite reached your dystopia yet.

HelenaDove · 29/07/2019 03:05

So it was a pointless thing to say really.