AIBU to be frustrated with the abuse of the NHS

[MrsFrankCastle]

www.wakefieldexpress.co.uk/health/nhs-asks-for-common-sense-after-woman-attends-pinderfields-hospital-a-e-with-broken-fingernail-1-9901334?fbclid=IwAR00MYep6y1lX4mHKqnRYCWIlamHiyfs4NMnS3WOAO4p6G_BLLoRVPM4Pdw

This case just highlights the issues we have with the NHS and being over worked. I love the NHS(I am a NHS worker) and thank god the people involved had the sense to turn this person away!

The Dr involved did say that people need to be re educated about the use of the NHS but how do we do this? Do we share stories of what we consider abuse of the NHS in the hope that other people read them and never make the same decisions?

"trusts have no way to claim back thousands from foreigners coming over and having expensive treatments."

For non-emergency NHS services, a patient would be asked to provide their NHS number, usually printed on a previous letter or form

If you want to identify foreigners among those who don't have their NHS number to hand,
then that means checking everyone, including white people without noticeable foreign accents

i.e. requiring ID which states nationality and residence status, or producing an NHS card and sufficient ID to confirm it belongs to that patient

So adding more bureaucracy, manpower, time and expense

All to try to reclaim something that is less than 1% of NHS costs

A couple of months ago I was posting about one of my twins (toddler, ASD, non verbal) who had chicken pox. He screamed from 7pm and wasn’t stopping. He was hitting himself in the head, inconsolable. We tried everything. When he was still going at 11:30pm I called 111. The woman sounded very concerned when I finally got through and said someone would call us back. The screaming continued. Eventually he passed out for 10 minutes when they called me back at after 3am. They said because he was asleep they couldn’t assess him and got me to say I had no further concerns so they could close the case and told me to just call back if I was still concerned (!)

DH Took him to GP that morning who did a half arsed exam, didn’t take his nappy off to see the horror show going on under there but looked at the ones on his leg I was concerned about and prescribed some cream. By 6:30pm that night it became clear he had a very serious infection - 111 sent us straight to the local hospital to see a doctor.

I’m honestly not surprised that people bypass this system and go straight to A&E.

Last week or so the other twin had a little fall but cut his eyebrow open and I had to take him to A&E - they sorted him out in under an hour.

I know from experience we got very lucky there but if all you had were those two experiences I see why people would go straight to the hospital to be honest.

I worked nearly 40 years in the NHS.
I have a progressive condition that seriously affects my quality of life. I am not allowed the only treatment that works because it is expensive.
I am not allowed to have physio or use a warm hydrotherapy pool because I am not yet disabled enough. Even though both those things would ease my pain and improve my mobility.
So instead I take a cocktail of drugs every day that make me feel sick and give me awful heartburn. I have put on a huge amount of weight and my blood pressure has gone up, due to side effects.
I have severe osteoporosis and have had several fractures, because of drug side effects.
So I spend hours in the fracture clinic, see 4 different consultants, have endless blood tests, all because of the side effects from the drugs that dont work.
This is all probably costing as much as the treatment thst does work.
But no.
This is the NHS and chronic disease.
False economy and waste.

Mental health care is the same.
No support until it is too late, if then.
My son called the crisis team in the middle of the night. They said it's the middle of the night what do you expect.
Well he is dead now so he won't be costing the NHS anything.
Except that my condition is probably worse because of the trauma.
Dead patients don't cost anything.

We were in AlderHey the other weekend. DS had a temp of 41°c that wouldn't go down then rapidly developed a non fading rash.

The A&E dept was like a family fucking day out. One kid with a grazed knee (legit just a graze!) had his Mum, Dad, Nan and TWO grandads with him. Bad enough it was for a fecking grazed knee but genuinely injured and sick kids couldn't get a seat because Grampa fecking Barry was sat on his fat arse watching youtube on his phone.

One kid was there because he had thrown up. Just the once. No temp. No other symptoms. Mum, Dad, Nan & three siblings ALL there.

(We were sat right by triage so could hear it all every time another family went in. The Nurses actually told some of them they were BU to come to a&e to be fair, for a grazed knee FFS)

They just closed our walk-in centres from 8pm now instead of 10pm. A&E depts are now being hammered by idiot parents and adults who couldn't tell their arse from their elbow or figure out how to call NHS 111 and get an out of hrs appt.

Re-education will take another few generations as there's always the idiots who think it's a jolly and a GP service.

"You also need to separate the cases of abuse (people with irrational expectations), and people that genuinely don't know where else to go."
Accident and emergency are the only reasons to go to A&E. If you don't fall into either category then you do not go to A&E. Unless it is an accident or emergency you got a pharmacy or your GP. How hard is that to understand?

If your GP isn't open and you have not had an accident and there is no emergency then you do not go to A&E. You wait until the GP re-opens.

Once I went to A & E following an acccident and I met a fellow patient who was there because she had a blooming eyelash in her that was irritating it. I couldn't believe they hadn't just sent her home.

They need someone in reception who can make the right judgements in whether something is an accident or an emergency.

Because people go to A & E when they don't need to and/or with minor complaints, staff sometimes miss the serious stuff. A few years ago my cousin aged only 45 was sent home by A & E at 5 p.m. when feeling very unwell and with severe stomach pain. He died at 8 p.m. at home from an Abdominal Aortic Aneurysm.

If so many people didn't go for minor tummy complaints when their GP is closed then maybe my cousin wouldn't have been dismissed so flippantly. My Uncle and Aunt's only child would still be alive today.

We called 111 a few weeks ago as our disabled boy was under the weather. He has Epilepsy and was clustering absence seizures. We had the right meds and were giving them according to his rescue plan. We wanted an out of hours GP appointment. They wanted to send an ambulance. Said to call handler and paramedic on the call. We are both at home and live 6 miles from the hospital.
They argued black and blue and said ok on your own head. Well arrange GP appointment.
Waited and no call came through ...as I'm back on the phone a GP walks through my door!
Out of hours are at my local hospital!

111 are the biggest waste...this is probably the 5th time we've argued no to an ambulance!!!

ITA - I asked for DD1 to have an appointment every 3 months with her consultant, so we could revise her emergency protocol. Instead, they would only see her once every 9 months or a year - so we had to take her to A & E every week via 999 and an ambulance for ten years as per the protocol, because her condition is volatile and changes its presentation regularly! Talk about false economy - and then the resulting stress on the family meant the rest of us ended up going to the NHS, with stress induced illnesses! See below!

As for MH, patients here are told by the CMHT that in a crisis outside office hours, they should go to A & E! DD2 was told after 6 years of severe mental health problems, she could have psychotherapy later in the year; but on condition she goes to A & E every time when in crisis! Given she’s probably been over 40 times already, it’s difficult to see what there is left to prove? Either she needs psychotherapy or she doesn’t?

I used to be a high level volunteer at our local NHS Trust, according to the stats I was given up to 70% of people in A&E at the weekend should have been treated (or not) somewhere else
BUT in a lot of cases the other more suitable treatment ( GP, walk in, mental health services) wasn’t available

I work in the NHS and see it dying the death from a thousand cuts - the obvious cuts in funding and staffing but also the abuse which is bleeding it dry.

There's the inappropriate use of A&E and Out Of Hours GP, the vast amounts of medication wasted by idiots who don't value it because they don't pay for it and the appointments made but missed which, in turn, make it harder for others to get appointments.

Just by coincidence, today, I have heard of a pensioner who lives in Spain but has flown back here for a knee replacement, a young British woman who has married a man from overseas, moved to his home country and lived there for years complaining because she was billed for the birth of her second child (having flown back and had her first child here unbilled) and someone who had a gastric band done privately but now wants it removed on the NHS.
I don't know what the answer is but the current system is unsustainable

My son was sick I knew it was most likely tonsillitis or an ear infection again and rang 111 for an out of hours appointment (he gets very ill fast and was needing antibiotics pretty much every month at the time) anyway I explain my issue they decide an ambulance is the best bet I try to say no they threaten me with children services and so I waited for an ambulance he had tonsillitis they rang out of hours themselves (the ambulance workers) and got me an appointment thing is I rang Saturday the ambulance took till around 2am sunday morning if it had been a serious problem the flying doctor was literally five minutes away in the out of hours centre which I can access without going via 111 an eight hour wait for an emergency when there is an emergency dr twiddling his thumbs is a waste of resources

CANT ACCESS not can ffs

"The lack of funding in mental health and social care is putting the burden into the NHS" the way you've worded that makes it sound as if you don't understand mh care IS part of the Nhs. I didn't twist anything I responded to what you wrote.

"People should not be becoming so unwell with their MH that they need to go to A&E." I agree this definitely shouldn't be happening with those mentally ill people who HAVE tried to access primary mental health care.

There will always be some mental illnesses and some mentally ill people who for a variety of reasons don't start off by accessing or trying to access primary care help first - they delay because they're embarrassed/ashamed, because they fear the stigma/repercussions (not entirely unfounded I must say), because they genuinely don't realise they're ill until they reach crisis point if at all (with some conditions that's the nature of the illness) and/or because the onset has been very fast and occurred at a time when primary care services are unavailable (long closures of GP surgeries at certain times of year when mh crises can spike don't help this - I'm thinking particularly of christmas).

It's not always patients fault.

"Mental health services are one of the most underfunded parts of the NHS." That's always been the case, but is particularly obvious when the whole Nhs is being run down.

"The lack of funding in mental health and social care is putting the burden into the NHS alongside people not wanting to manage their own health needs and self care and inappropriate attendances." Putting it in the same sentence as your comments on mh and social care is why I believed you were referring to mentally ill people's lack of self care. If I've misunderstood I apologise - but surely you can see how the misunderstanding arose?

"I think you seem to go out of your way to target me when I post on these NHS threads and angrily obviously dislike anything I ever say" absolutely not I didn't even recognise the username particularly.

I responded as I do on most threads to what was actually said. There are very few posters I see the username and go "ugh" and where I do I actually tend to just not bother with their comments at all, as I just think they're deliberately provocative.

My own poor experiences have happened not in one locale but around the uk in affluent and deprived areas, in areas with supposedly good Nhs provision and those known not to have.

I don't think you are personally responsible for anything I've experienced, but what I have responded to is the comments you've made that didn't seem to understand or appreciate the patients perspective or the lack of certain resources (eg miu) etc

I've addressed points you've made - that's how debate works - that doesn't make me in the wrong in any way.

I haven't "shouted", I haven't insulted you in any way, I haven't been offensive I've simply pointed out the opposite arguments to points you've made.

Madcatlady - yes I must admit while I know the food isn't particularly good my recollection is that it's not as awful as some make it out to be. I do think it needs improved in terms of nutritional quality as nutrition is hugely important in healing and it tends to be very short on fruit n veg side of things, but it's incredibly difficult to cater at the level of numbers they now have to.

In terms of gaining better knowledge/understanding as to why certain patients are frequent attendees as well as looking at the individual cases and perhaps setting up something to record where it's due to poor primary care services it seems to me it would be a good idea to ask patients. Indeed I personally think it would be a really good idea if a&e, minor injuries units and similar were to record if THEY believed patients were ending up with them due to poor care from primary health services.

I certainly have came across several a&e staff in my time who've commented and tried to advise on how to get the treatment needed (usually "you REALLY need a referral to a specialist to get to the bottom of this") and even on a couple of occasions tried to intervene on our behalf!

Unfortunately, mostly the GP's still didn't listen and still fobbed us off.

Yes it's something I feel strongly about because it's seriously affected our health and lives. I make no apology for that.

And I think it's important where possible to inform those who can potentially change things (which I try to do in real life too - but it's not easy without risking being left without a GP) of what the issues are. Not in a blame way but in a "this is what the problem is and what needs to change" way.

I actually agreed with some of what you said (and I think I did say so) but just because I didn't completely agree doesn't make what I said wrong.

"Sometimes we were successful, sometimes not. It most definitely isn’t a myth that people come over then leave without paying." I don't think anyone has denied its a problem, what myself and others say though is it isn't as big a problem as right wing politicians and media make out. That it isn't the thing that if solved would magically make matters much better.

"This is the NHS and chronic disease.
False economy and waste."

I am both unsurprised and saddened by your story.

My own is very similar and dds is heading that way.

NOT diagnosing and treating conditions early on is short sighted and as you say a false economy.

If my endo had been DX and treated far earlier I would perhaps not have had/needed the 2 mc, twisted ovary, several a&e admissions, 3 surgeries, treatment for the problems the resultant scar tissue that's been caused. Surely it would have been cheaper to refer me to gynae, be DX and treated before all that.

My spinal condition I will concede is slightly more tricky as it's quite rare, but again when I started reporting some quite particular symptoms it still took far too long for that to be taken on board (and another couple a&e admissions due to falls and other accidents) before a specialist referral was made.

Dd is already experiencing being fobbed off by GP's with less knowledge of her condition than she and I have when she is dealing with certain symptoms/infections which she is

A more prone to due to the condition

B less responsive to treatment because of it so more aggressive treatments are needed early on

C can lead to long term health issues if not "nipped in the bud"

I strongly suspect at least partly because they don't like admitting they don't know how to deal with it. We've even had them ignoring specialist advice and recommendations for certain treatments and medications.

This doesn't save money or resources, it simply creates worse/long term problems which I'm sure are more expensive to deal with in the end!

@endofthelinefinally I bet the NHS press releases on obesity make you feel well peachy.

Oh yes. I know people look at me and see a fat lazy person.

"Unless it is an accident or emergency you got a pharmacy or your GP. How hard is that to understand?"

Firstly I'm very sorry for the loss of your cousin.

However as myself and others have repeatedly stated - what do you do when those services are unavailable or extremely hard to access? Some parts of the U.K. Are reporting SEVERAL WEEKS waiting times for GP appointments.

Depending on the ailment a condition (I can well imagine this happening with AAA) could well become worse in the time spent waiting for a GP appointment necessitating emergency treatment - it shouldn't be happening but it is.

@endofthelinefinally The NHS are hypocritical when it comes to weight. Because they are happy to prescribe drugs that cause weight gain if its the cheaper option.

I know. I never had a weight problem till I got sick. I eat very little due to nausea. I can't walk far, can't stand for long.
So the weight creeps up. Also have a lot of fluid retention.

I sat at home in a self improvised sling for 2 days ( fractured shoulder) over a bank holiday because I couldn't face A& E. I waited till the walk in centre opened because I knew it would be quieter and quicker.
I had managed the treatment myself but needed the xray. I had to prove the 3rd fracture before I qualified for a DXA scan and treatment for the osteoporosis. Which could have been diagnosed much earlier.

@endofthelinefinally

The worst thing is that I always went the extra mile for my patients. I fought for people to get the help they needed. I saved lives.
I have a box of cards and letters from people.
Now I am just looking around and thinking, what is the point.
Anyway, I am rambling now and derailing. I will crawl up the stairs and go to bed.
I think the NHS has pockets of excellence, but not for everyone.

Leaving with advice and guidance isn't the same as not needing to be seen. I fractured an elbow about a year ago and (having left it overnight in the vague hope it was just a sprain - no such luck) I turned up at A&E. I had a good quality sling from a previous prang, and it was only a small fracture so no need for plaster. "Good job you've got that sling as we've run out", said the nurse "Wear that and take this letter to attend fracture clinic in your home area".

Presumably I was recorded as just having advice and guidance (unless an x ray makes it fall into a different category) but I had a fracture so I think attendance was justified.

At one point I went about a year without a GP because my address fell into a dead zone of GP coverage. Old GP booted me off their list because I was out of catchment area. I was turned down by about 8 GP surgeries including my nearest due to my address (either I was in the wrong postcode area, wrong local authority, or just not in the right set of roads - I was on the edge of a lot of borders). In the end, to get a GP registration of any sort I had to give the right street address and the postcode of my NDNs (who were in catchment) and then lie to say I had no proof of address because I was sofa surfing. When you can't even get a GP registration - let alone an appointment - it's little wonder people turn up at A&E with minor issues.

At one point I went about a year without a GP because my address fell into a dead zone of GP coverage

That happened in my locale too I'm even wondering if you're a neighbour.

A particular postcode area (not real postcode but eg nw12) hadn't been accounted for when they did a border rejig and so patients in that postcode were getting told by all the GP's in our area that they weren't in their catchment! It was because they'd not been included in ANYONE's catchment took ages to sort out!