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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to think sister-in-law should have put her brother on mother's PoA?

45 replies

mrsmootoo · 24/07/2019 13:25

DH's sister has gone ahead (without consulting him) and set up Power of Attorney for their mother (who's been diagnosed with dementia). DH gets on well with his mother, but she's not in a state to really know what's happening. His relationship has been tricky with his sister over the years, but they do speak and we thought got on OK. Is she allowed to do this? Can it be challenged? She has also set up online banking for their mum and won't share the access info.

OP posts:

CatOnASwing · 24/07/2019 13:28

PoA can only be set up while the person is of sound mind, I believe?

TeenTimesTwo · 24/07/2019 13:28

No a lawyer.

But if your DM doesn't have capacity then the Court of Protection (?) should have been involved and informed your DH and given him a chance to object etc.

TeenTimesTwo · 24/07/2019 13:29

not a lawyer

CatOnASwing · 24/07/2019 13:29

...sorry, what I meant to say is that it should be relatively easy to get this unpicked if she can be demonstrated to not have been of sound mind when setting these things up.

TeenTimesTwo · 24/07/2019 13:31

See here www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/money-legal/legal-issues/power-of-attorney/what-happens-if-you-dont-have-a-power-of-attorney/

Are you sure your MIL didn't set this up with your SIL whilst still of sound mind?

Sunburntnoseandears · 24/07/2019 13:31

Smashing! Contact sil and wish her well with all things concerning mil. She won't be enlisting him /you for any care requirements.
Watch her back track.

Belindabelle · 24/07/2019 13:36

Your SIL didn’t get POA your MIL gave her POA.

A doctor has to sign the document to state that the person is medically capable to make decisions.

CornishMaid1 · 24/07/2019 13:37

SIL can't make a Lasting Power of Attorney for the mother. The LPA has to be made by the donor (the person granting the power so the mother).

The mother had to make the decision, so she may well have had a reason. If her daughter does more for her, lives nearer or brother and sister do not get on those could be reasons behind it.

If you believe she did not have capacity at the time then you can contact the Office of the Public Guardian who oversee LPAs. If you can prove she did not have mental capacity (e.g. mother's doctor will say that) or was coerced then you could challenge it with the OPG and instead the family would have to apply to the Court for Deputyship to be put in charge of mother's affairs.

If SIL is the only Attorney then she is perfectly correct in not giving brother details to mother's online bank account as she is the person with power to deal with it not brother.

bilbodog · 24/07/2019 13:43

You dont have to have a doctors signature anywhere on a POA. Ive recently set up one for my now late MIL. I filled it all in, we got everyone who needs to sign it, including MIL - having explained it all to her and got each signature countersigned by an appropriate person. A doctor was not involved at all!

Blueuggboots · 24/07/2019 13:43

Once someone has given POA, that person can bring it into being at any point they like.
I know this because my dad did it to my grandad, even though he was of sound mind at the time.
It is VERY difficult to reverse. We looked into it but then my grandad died anyway....

LillithsFamiliar · 24/07/2019 13:46

Why do you think your DH should have PoA rather than his DSIS? If DMIL is capable of appointing your DSIS then they don't need to discuss it with your DH. He has no right to be involved in the discussion or the decision. Although as PPs have pointed out if you think DMIL is incapable of decision making then you can challenge it.

Weebitawks · 24/07/2019 13:51

What is her reasoning for not letting your DH have PoA? To be honest, it's good it's been set up as the further down the road it gets, the harder it is.

Is there a particular reason why you don't think she should have it? Why exactly does you DH want access to things?

Wixi · 24/07/2019 14:01

I think the Op things that they should have joint PoA rather than one or the other. I have this with my sister for my Dad, if and when we ever need it.

VivienneHolt · 24/07/2019 14:02

If she’s not able to understand what’s happening then the PoA isn’t valid and your DH should challenge it.

Skittlesss · 24/07/2019 14:04

A doctor has to sign the document to state that the person is medically capable to make decisions

No they don’t.

OP, ignore the bullshit, armchair law experts on mumsnet and see a real life legal expert. Find out when the PoA was done.

VivienneHolt · 24/07/2019 14:04

Once someone has given POA, that person can bring it into being at any point they like.

You can draft a PoA in such a way that it only comes into force when the granter specifically says so.

zonkin · 24/07/2019 14:06

Are you sure that she wasn't of sound mind when she did the POA? If you have any doubts, then query it.

On the other hand, it may be like me and my siblings. Two of us have joint POA for my parents - set up well before they will ever need it - as our other sibling is neither reliable nor trustworthy. The POA was all done through a legal service and the reasons for the division were made clear.

iano · 24/07/2019 14:06

You need to see the document. When was it signed? Before or after she developed dementia. A 'certificate provider' should have confirmed that your mil had capacity (doesn't have to be a lawyer). Speak to the person and find out what happened when they signed. Did they know they were meant to check her capacity? Was sil in the room (automatically invalidates the document)? You can also contact the Office of the public guardian for help.

Suze1621 · 24/07/2019 14:07

When my mum initiated the process of setting up a Lasting Power of Attourney through a solicitor both myself and my sister and all of our by then adult children were notified. Only my sister and myself were actually named in the final LPA, but the solicitor advised that the details of all close relatives are sought so they can be notified during the process which seemed a good safeguarding measure.

munemema · 24/07/2019 14:10

It must surely have been done while MIL was of sound mind, otherwise the court of protection would have been involved. Either way, SIL didn't choose who the PoA was.

If SIL really has done this when MIL didn't have capacity, then DH/MIL need some legal advice.

HappyHammy · 24/07/2019 14:10

Contact the o.p.g. if you have concerns. If your sil has financial poa she has to produce accounts each year. Your dh can also contact elder abuse or social services and mums dr if he thinks she was not of sound mind when poa was signed.

CheeseCakeSunflowers · 24/07/2019 14:11

When my father gave my sister and I poa we completed the forms but there was a section which had to be completed by an independent person confirming he understood what was happening, in our case his solicitor did this. We also had to send notifications to anyone who might have an interest, as we were his only children we sent these to his adult grandchildren. I would contact a solicitor and ask for advice.

Chakano · 24/07/2019 14:24

if she wasn't of sound mind, you should challenge this.
My dad had to have a medical to say he was of sound mind when he asked us to do it.
you need to see a solicitor for advice.

GabsAlot · 24/07/2019 14:24

She cant set it up without her mothers knowledge-it has to be when she was of sound mind so id look into how it was done first

Seeingadistance · 24/07/2019 14:24

Is it not more likely that your MIL set up the Power of Attorney some time ago, naming her daughter, and it's only come into effect now with her loss of capacity through dementia? It could have been set up years ago.

For what it's worth - I'm going to see my lawyer tomorrow to sign my will and also the Power of Attorney for which I've nominated my sister (with her permission) and my DS will be named in a few years when he is older. I do only have one sibling, but I've not contacted any other family members to let them know that they will NOT have POA.

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