I am terrified of the climate emergency but more terrified by how ambivalent others seem to be about it!

[CopperPatch]

Just that really, I see people sharing things on social media, commenting on threads, talking about climate change etc but actually changing their lives very, very little - or finding ways to justify not taking action.... it is not scaremongering, it is not a fear project, our planet will no longer sustain human life because of us but so, so many people seem to not care, or only care on a surface level - great click bait but changing their lives in any way seems a step to far. Yes we need wide-scale political and economic shifts but we also need every day action from every day people - and that is EVERYONE'S responsibility!!!! AIBU to expect more of everyone?!

If you feel frustrated, impotent or hopeless the only way to counter is to take ACTION. Action is hope.
Whatever that is for you. Small actions like dairy free or plastic free fruit and veg, larger ones like a no-fly for a year pledge or do as I do a lobby for legislative change. I feel better, I feel hope and that inspires me.

Catherine no I've never travelled and I'll admit I've educated myself a lot since having children which has changed my mind and certainly contributed to our decision not to have more. And yes I am very privileged, but my point is we are attempting to do everything in our power - perhaps we have more room for manoeuvre than others due to privilege but then it is my opinion we have a responsibility to do more. I am not expecting everyone to do what we have done but everyone can make choices within their own worlds, be those small or large. And for those who can't, those who can make changes have a responsibility to do everything we can. I am not going to apologise for the attempts we are making or the work we do, but I am very aware of the privilege and do all we can to share that - as I say our land is shared with whoever else wishes to live self sufficiently and cannot afford to buy land!

wheresmymojo That's pretty much my vision of the future as well, sadly.

Catherine and Chilli Thing, you are in denial not of climate change but of the fact there are some people prepared to make sacrifices you will not.

You do not believe that a small but growing minority do not travel overseas, that a small but growing minority of those do not even renew their passports.

This alone scares you more than climate change. You are scared because, unlike Trump, you know you are wrong but do not have the strength to confront that.

I also think the gap between 'rich' and poor will become a gap between 'rich' and everyone else.

The incredibly wealthy (multi millionaire / billionaires) will still have a decent standard of living and will still find ways of having life's luxuries. The rest of us won't - and that even includes things like washing machines.

Because when most developing nations in 30-40 years time are in complete chaos and breakdown as they will be the ones most impacted where will we get our cheap labour to make all of the parts needed for a washing machine?

Our comfortable lifestyles now are on the backs of people in developing nations - our whole supply chains will fall to bits.

You just can't have lifestyles like ours without cheap labour in relatively stable developing countries and global trade routes.

The time between 1920 - whenever the shit hits the fan will be an abnormal blip in human society where there was (hollow laugh) some form of attempt at meritocracy and a middle class. Expect to see this start to be eroded once the upper classes and truly wealthy start to panic about climate change.

One family not travelling by plane will make zero difference. That flight you could have taken will still take off. It would need to happen on some enormous scale for it to make a difference e.g. banning people from going on more than one abroad holiday per year. Same with meat - one person doing meatless Monday or being vegan is great but not as great as meat being rationed.

But no government is going to take measures like that to make a real difference because Jesus it would be fucking unpopular.

@Ghanagirl

I'm surprised you're not more concerned about climate change with close family in (presumably from your username) Africa...they will be much more impacted than us in the UK.

Africa will be largely uninhabitable in 30-40 years if we don't make huge changes.

Unfortunately, largely speaking those of us in the West create most of the emissions but will be less impacted than developing areas.

In that sense at least those on the thread making changes are trying to limit the impact of their privilege but you have belittled that?

Surely it's better that we try to limit our impact than say "Fuck it, we'll be okay in the UK so I'm not going to change anything...let people in the other countries suffer the fallout so I can take 3 flights a year and drive my SUV" or whatever 🤷🏻‍♀️

One thing riles me -and I’ve seen it on both sides of the debate- the conflation that to be more eco it has to be more primitive. A sort of return to the 50s or 60s with all the sort of drudgery and hard work that entails. I make eco switches when I think they are better. Better for the planet and for me! So a vegetarian diet is better for both, especially no processed meats. Travel is good - flying is bad so we go by train and it’s better. Electric cars are well designed and cost less to run, the ecover washing powder works well and smells lovely - I’m happy with it. I like positive changes not hardships.
So agree with the pp and the op about privilege. If you can do more then you should do more and it does no favours to imply that it’s a cheaper way to live.

One family not travelling by plane will make zero difference.

I read a book on climate change and the expected impacts recently and it said one trans-Atlantic flight puts enough CO2 in the atmosphere to be considered to have melted 3 metres square of Artic ice.

So when you realise that, you realise that each flight we take actually matters quite a lot.

The plane would take off anyway is an old trope!
However, a family travelling once a year is fine. No ones going to take that away. That’s good travel.

A shit load of business flights or air freighted goods is not good travel it’s a stupid waste of resource.

What do you guys think about Extinction Rebellion?

@wheresmymojo true but that’s one transatlantic flight not one family - at the moment people not flying for environmental reasons is on such a tiny scale that it won’t prevent the flight from actually taking off so nothing is actually gained.

If the movement was scaled up and people were actually prevented from flying so often it could make a massive massive difference. But like I said, unpopular!

Well...yes, but if we all decide to carry on flying then that's not going to change. If we all try to fly less for pleasure and for business (those of us who fly for business) then eventually the number of flights would reduce.

wheresmymojo totally with you on the bleak outlook sadly. I really have to try and not let myself spiral into a complete blackhole over it tbh

As a kid I was told “you need to eat all your dinner, there’s starving people in Africa”. I didn’t see how me eating all my dinner was going to help them! It was an abstract concept and a pretty pointless statement. The same applies to climate change for a lot of us. I like going on holiday to far flung places which necessitates flying. I don’t see how me not flying is going to reverse climate change. Yes of course if everyone stopped flying it would help but that’s not going to happen so I’m not going to make my own life miserable for nothing. I don’t have a partner, the first 40 years of my life were bloody hard, so I’m not going to sit in my house alone darning socks and eating lentils with the years I have left! I’m aware that’s selfish but this apocalyptic future is too abstract for me, I don’t believe that any changes I made would make a difference so yes I will selfishly enjoy the time I have left on this earth. Yes I do all the recycling and whatnot but as many have said, it doesn’t really make a difference does it.

There is absolutely no point in being “terrified” because it doesn’t change a thing. All it does is cause the individual extreme anxiety. Everyone on this thread can say what should happen or needs to happen but none of us have any control over it.

I do worry sometimes but then I think what will me worrying solve?

The UK is less than 2% of the total global emissions. The UK could be nuked tomorrow and it wouldn’t change I thing. So things like recycling although you should do it aren’t really going to make a dent

That's one thing we can do, educate our children

The having children part is the problem. Having a child is THE WORST thing you can do in terms of your global footprint.

The UK could be nuked tomorrow and it wouldn’t change I thing That's not likely though whereas climate change is.

@tequilasunrises

Do you jump on a bus, a train or in a taxi and refuse to pay because “...well you are going in my direction anyway”.

In fact, for all those who deny, do you disbelieve the world is a sphere? And that gravity means all our “germs” including CO2 emissions, plastic waste and human inequality has no borders.

We are all connected in what we do. More importantly what we don’t do.

Such as flying in asparagus to the UK (Sainsbury’s yesterday) when we should be transferring wealth to Peru in other ways.

Asparagus. From Peru. From Sainsbury’s. Raising sea levels in Bangladesh.

Because we are all connected to this now.

I shop at sainsburys im always surprised by how little of their produce can be recyled. Recyclable packaging should be standard, but it isnt because shareholders want a big profit. Something has to change! Mumsnet campaign?

You just can't have lifestyles like ours without cheap labour in relatively stable developing countries and global trade routes

Maybe not the UK but the US and China could be self-sufficient in this way, fracking is getting the US energy independent (although if you couldn’t guess, I’m more in favor of nuclear power than fracking but whatever weans us off foreign oil...)

UK is a drop in the bucket when it comes to emissions, better not to worry about climate change and worry more about local environmental initiatives that will make life pleasant (ie better train networks/walkable cities/revitalized downtown/electric cars for better air quality)

The having children part is the problem. Having a child is THE WORST thing you can do in terms of your global footprint.

I think you may be right here.

However, people usually argue that we need the future generation to care for the elderly. The issue is that many people have more than one child, and each if those children may do the same, so the population continues to spiral. And then we need more people to look after them when they get old...

@Al2O3 no of course not.

I’m certainly not a denier, far from it and I think that certain things, air travel included SHOULD be rationed.

I’m just saying that one family deciding not to fly and living in their own bubble won’t change anything - in fact I’m willing to bet that a lot of people make these personal choices like less flying and having a reusable cup feel like they’ve done their bit and disengage from thinking about it.

It would be more meaningful if we were voting green, lobbying governments/oil companies/airlines etc and kicking up a huge stink. But when extinction rebellion do that everyone gets annoyed at having their day disrupted..

when we should be transferring wealth to Peru in other ways

How do you propose transferring wealth to Peru without some sort of service/product provided? You would A destroy their economy B have those funds end up in the coffers of unscrupulous people.

Nothing we've seen or experienced to this date are due to the phenomena we call climate change. Merely precursors. Calling all the current natural disasters a result of climate change is down playing how bad it will be be in the future. And we cannot prevent it, just adapt now, or face the consequences.