I am terrified of the climate emergency but more terrified by how ambivalent others seem to be about it!

[CopperPatch]

Just that really, I see people sharing things on social media, commenting on threads, talking about climate change etc but actually changing their lives very, very little - or finding ways to justify not taking action.... it is not scaremongering, it is not a fear project, our planet will no longer sustain human life because of us but so, so many people seem to not care, or only care on a surface level - great click bait but changing their lives in any way seems a step to far. Yes we need wide-scale political and economic shifts but we also need every day action from every day people - and that is EVERYONE'S responsibility!!!! AIBU to expect more of everyone?!

I feel fatalistic about the climate emergency, because what was really needed to fix it smacks of Socialism, and people hate that more than they hate the fact that consumerism is making the planet uninhabitable.

There are lakes of toxic waste that have been created by industry, there is an island of discarded plastic twice the size of France smothering an ocean, and all that was needed to prevent those was an effective system of waste management and recycling at the source.

But that would have cost money, and take some effort to use. And people don't want to pay taxes for infrastructure, it infringes on their rights.
People as individuals can be smart but self serving, and in groups they rely on diffused responsibility, so here we are.

No one is going to accept living with less, certainly not China, Russia, Brazil or India, whose emissions will all dwarf those of the west. They will be thrilled to see us impoverish ourselves, but it will make zero difference to global emissions

Do you want to add any more clichés to this post?

I think I've been through all the stages from wanting to do something to feeling defeated by it all.

I remember the banning of CFCs, it seems it has reaped benefits so perhaps that might help peopel feel a bit more that it is worth doing something?
www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2018/nasa-study-first-direct-proof-of-ozone-hole-recovery-due-to-chemicals-ban

Strange to only see Russia mentioned a couple of times on this thread, it is such a big offender. Back in the early 90s there was a lot written about the ex Soviet Union, particularly Siberia was doing, as well as the new "businesses" that encouraged super rich hunters to come and hunt Siberian Tiger and other rare species. It has all continued for all of this time and yet we never seem to hear about it. Here's research from 1992.
scholarship.law.berkeley.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1419&context=elq

Google China re forestation.

They are using their Army to plant thousands of trees.

New trees are good. Not removing old trees in the first place is much better.

Absolutely.

But any trees are better than no trees.

There is also the Great Green Wall project in Africa.

But have all have to stop just chopping off trees in our gardens as well.

Something else that’s used to clean the air are so called Living Green Walls, I think. Some of them are places around schools, maybe we can have more of those around.

We can all only do our little bit, and if that's the merest drop in the global ocean, there's not much we can do about it. There's really no sense in working yourself into being terrified about it.

Much bigger countries don't care, and so many people who can afford to everywhere keep on buying loads of stuff they don't need, wasting food and fuel, you name it.

Just on MN there are people who waste water and fuel by washing towels etc. every day, and others who tell people trying to sell their house that their perfectly nice, functional kitchen needs ripping out, because it's not quite the latest style.

But even if these sorts of attitudes changed wholesale overnight in the U.K., I doubt it'd make more than a pinprick.

CatherineofAragon, re your comments on domestic science teaching, I was at school in the 60s and wasn't taught anything like the things you quote. Making an apron for our cookery sessions, and a 'slip' that none of us was ever going to wear - complete waste of time and fabric - was about the size of it. As for the actual cookery, rock cakes and cheese and potato pie (basically mash with cheese in) was about it.

A friend of a dd did do Home Ec. GCSE, and one of her projects was knitting a basket of fruit and vegetables, inc. a cauliflower! - which I remember well since she was pushed for time and I was asked to knit her a lemon!

I dare say it was a good way of demonstrating her knowledge of techniques and different stitches, but what use was that ever going to be to anyone?

Industrialization has saved the planet, if you think about economies of scale. We cannot actually sustain 6 billion or so lives on Earth without carbon-intensive activities, especially when it comes to agriculture.

I only have to look at my own family history; I come from a family of subsistence farmers, the farm they used to till (on very steep hillsides) is now covered with forest, as economies of scale means that only one family is engaged in agriculture, and they need less land to produce more food. If we all grew our own food using less fossil fuels, the land usage needed to support that would denude our countryside of forest cover. If we have a less certain supply of energy, there would be a resultant need for chopped wood needed to heat homes in winter.

I saw a photograph of my grandfather’s class (maybe about 8 years old; this was in the 1930s) and I’ll never forget how miserable they looked. It was a cold day, and they were not really properly dressed. No smiles at all. Everyone was wearing the same sort of outfit, boys in overalls and girls in smocks. They looked raggedy and skinny. Why would anyone choose this sort of future for their children? Simple answer is that we won’t.

De-carbonization will lead to worse life outcomes. That’s simply a fact, as “green” energy cannot power modern societies. (With the exception of hydro, which is an environmental disaster in other ways).

The exception is nuclear energy, which, if developed countries had further taken advantage of it, we would not be in the mess we are in now.

OP, do you have children?

Industrialization has saved the planet hardly... you mean it's saved humanity this far? The planet itself would be far far better off without humans and their wretched Industrialization, this is the problem, we only ever think about it in terms of humans - sod all the other plants and animals who were here long before us. I hate that people always couch planetary care in terms of their children and grandchildren, what about for the sake of the actual earth and everything else that lives on it?

Do you want to add any more clichés to this post?

It’s a cliche because it’s true. Did you know that Beijing alone contains 1/3 the population of Great Britain? They know what it’s like to live “green” as they’ve done without proper heating in winter and grown up crapping in pig sties.

They’d rather not.

But more importantly, the reason you hear a lot about green investment in China is that domestic investment can attract crazy money, as many Chinese do not have much opportunity to invest abroad, hence the solar panel industry is really out of control there, I’m not sure it is (so to speak) sustainable.

I agree completely. I'm a 35 year old straight male who has a trade qualification in mechanics, and studied motorsport technologies at university. As I turned 30 I realised that the Australian and the world consensus on climate change issues were primarily negative. Over the last few years I've struggled to scale back my impact, slowly reducing my emissions to the point where I cannot eat red meat, I cannot continue private transport(which in Perth means no practical transport), my only expertise adds to further negative outputs... I'm relegated to only working jobs within walking/riding distance, which result in jobs 50‰ of the pay grade I studied for.
I'm only angry because I was told I could follow my dreams, but my dreams are not sustainable.

Ah....but better some dreams rather than no dreams to use the previous analogy.

BTW - do you mean you are not crooked?

I'm am 100% crooked. I'm a middle aged straight western male.

Although, my dreams have changed from "what I want for myself aka. my best life", to "I think humanity needs to survive, regardless of 'my best life'" I know everything I am is wrong. I'm just doing my tiny bit now, cause that's all I can do. Will it make a difference? I can only hope so.

Just some responses to the many, many posts... I'm glad my original post generated some debate but sadly many responses reinforce my initial concerns.
We need whole-system change, and me, you, everyone who has responded to this post and beyond is part of that system. We are consumers, we are voters, we are service users, we create, make and use goods every day - on mass people are powerful! Furthermore no country sits in isolation, our buying and consumer habits here impact what happens in the US, China etc, and whilst yes I agree the wholesystem change has to come with global change - there is no excuse at all for saying 'well if they're not doing it, than I am not bothering...' passing the buck is not acceptable, each and every one of us can make small changes that can lead to larger scale changes. And yes I have read the research, I am not naive to the scale of the problems but do think as voters, as consumers etc we do have power. If you, I and others refuse to fly, the market demand for flying drops, if we stop supporting the fast fashion industry the industry weakens - we are just as much part of the problem as we are the solution.

I respect other have different opinions, I don't respect the opinions of climate deniers, I have read the research and to deny a climate emergency caused by humans aligns with the same thinking as suggesting the world is flat - so I won't even engage with that argument.
An earlier poster asked what I do, before I judge others... we don't fly, instead of expensive holidays, cars, clothes, we purchased land, we live self sufficiently off that land and, following advice from wildlife organisations, maximise opportunities for biodiversity on that land, we also invite others to share our land, grow their own food etc. But by doing this I don't think we do everything we can, and there is still a lot more we can do, so we're still a work in progress. I suppose I am quite staunch on this issue - I think each and every one of us has to do everything we can to help preserve the planet for our future. This does not negate the wider social, economic and political reform that we need but it also means we can't shirk our individual responsibilities either.

Simply put I want to look my children in the eye when they are adults and tell them I did everything I could for this planet....

CopperPatch

Well said. We are doing the same and for the same reasons. It is going to be hard to adapt to a shrinking economy. But not impossible. And we have no choice. Better to start preparing now.

Forests do seem to be a massive part of it. And we can start by replanting our own. Places like the yorjshire dales were once covered in trees. I know it's not much of an area in the scheme of things but we should do what we can.

The car and the aeroplane are here to stay. Nope, I'm not going to stop flying. Ridiculous. My family lives abroad. I want to see them whilst I'm still alive. The economy is global now. Suit yourself, but it's pretty ridiculous to stop using transport because truth be told, people having been travelling and using forms of transport since they stood on two legs. I wonder how many 'refuse to fly' would refuse an organ being flown in to save their child's life.

instead of expensive holidays, cars, clothes, we purchased land, we live self sufficiently off that land and,

Plenty of people will never be able to purchase land to live self-sufficiently, and it's not a matter of forgoing 'expensive' holidays, clothes and cars . Jesus wept that is some serious privilege there. Pretty sick of all this judginess and 'thou shalt not' that will largely affect the poor and working poor and make their lives even harder. Plenty of people have little choice in how their live due to low wages and high costs of living, much less buy a plot of land.

Yanbu OP. I feel the same. Significant drastic change needs to happen now, internationally and it won't. We are rearranging furniture. Plant trees in the UK? Better to pay Brazil to keep the Amazon rainforest (one football pitch goes every 2 secs) etc...

I think the situation will have to become severe and unequivocal - deaths from heat, food shortages, flooding in lowlying countries and islands, regular intense weather events etc before governments really pull their fingers out and take action. And sadly for many that will be too late. Sorry, not feeling optimistic this afternoon!!!

Technically though op, you're still not doing enough. You're sitting there, on either a computer, tablet or phone, using Internet to broadcast your views. Ever think of how much pollution was caused to create the device you're using? And what will happen to said device once you're finished with them? How often do you replace electronics? How much is produced from the data servers that carry your data to where it needs to go? There's tons of pollution caused by using the Internet that you probably don't realise.

People like to be all high and mighty, but unless you're actually willing to give up everything, I don't believe it. You're still not doing enough frankly. No point telling the rest of us we don't care when you aren't doing enough either. Although I don't care really, because I know regardless the outcome will sadly be the same. Wish it wouldn't be that way, but it probably will.

Honestly....we're pretty much already past the point of no return now.

The only thing anyone can do is try to limit how hellish hell gets to be.

The difference between a 3 degree warming and worst case 8 degree warming is pretty immense. 8 degrees is the end of human civilisation.

3 degrees is still immensely shit but not doomsday.

People are right though - stopping at 2.5-3 degrees change requires MASSIVE changes. We're talking about every single person in Western countries reducing their living standards by 30% and developing countries stopping development.

The only way that will happen is when the shit really starts to hit the fan....obviously we're already starting to see the impact with huge wildfires, increase in the number and intensity of hurricanes, deaths in heatwaves, etc....but I mean Govts won't legislate to the degree needed until things are ten times worse than this.

By then it will be too late 🤷🏻‍♀️

Looking on the bright side we (UK) will be less impacted by climate change than most of the world. I foresee in 30-40 years we'll close our borders to climate refugees (and immigrants), have an authoritarian Govt with a shoot to kill policy for any refugees trying to get into the country, rationing (forever), etc.

There will be a huge influx of people moving further North in Canada, Russia, Greenland, etc.

Southern Europe, South & Central America and the southern US states as well as much of Australia will be desert. The Amazon will be gone.

This is all in the IPCC climate change report - not some kind of fanciful story.

If people think there immediate problems are more pressing than this they're most likely wrong. Our children will be living in a different world to us.

I know most girls my DDs age aren't interested in an eco friendly capsule wardrobe. They're more than happy to buy a shed load of crap from Primark, then winge about climate control and not realise the irony.

^ That's one thing we can do, educate our children

Agree with groundanchochillipowder Privileged indeed.

And I bet before your current anti-flying stance, you travelled beforehand and saw something of the world, but now expect everyone else not to. Ditto with children.