To think a therapist who sleeps with their client is dodgy AF? **trigger warning**

[Scarlett555]

Before my wife and I got together she had counselling to help her deal with problems around boundaries including childhood sexual abuse.

She ended up getting obsessed with her (female) therapist and they had a sexual relationship for about 3 years. They are still really good pals.

AIBU to think this is dodgy as hell?

If a man did this it would be considered seriously unethical and I feel the same applies with her being a woman.

This woman has recently moved to our town and keeps trying to befriend me. She tried to pop in for a cup of tea the other day when I was working at home but I said I was too busy.

Wife and I had a row last night because I am being frosty and rude towards this therapist. She says they were both consenting adults, it was a long time ago etc.

Wife and this woman have already talked about an arrangement where she looks after our DC after school. I know my wife is free to be friends with who she wants but I can't get past the fact she took advantage of my wife when she was vulnerable and crossed a line that shouldn't be crossed. I really don't want me or our kids to have anything to do with her.

AIBU?

I am female too btw.

This is awful.

If your wife can't understand the issue l would have a think about telling this so called therapist to back off, unless she wants to be reported.

I think you need to work out how much of your anger is because of the overstepping of counsellor/client boundaries and how much is jealousy.

She lived abroad before which suited me much better

This suggests your reaction is about you, not your wife.

It is not up to you to do anything about this. If your wife wants to, that’s a whole other thing.

As PP have said, it’s highly unethical. If she is a member of a professional body, she will have signed up to a code of conduct that includes a specific rule about not entering into such a relationship with a client. BACP revised the guidance some years ago so it’s even more specific, in that even after therapy has ended and time has elapsed, the therapist is still accountable if they enter into a personal relationship with a former client. Difficult to suggest what to do. If you are aware this person is still practising as a therapist and you know which professional body she belongs to (if any) you could make a complaint about her. However, you would clearly be going against your wife’s wishes in so doing. It will be hard, if not impossible, for your wife to acknowledge what happened as an abuse of power if she regards this person in an idealistic way. I would feel as uncomfortable as you in these circumstances.

Forget the relationship just now. If the therapist moves to your town there's NO reason she should be looking your wife up and getting in contact. If they bumped into each other in the street and your wife suggested they have coffee then enough time has passed that this may ethically be ok, but it probably wouldn't be a great idea. That's with a straight up therapy relationship.

This arsewipe of a "therapist" it "counsellor" or whatever she calls herself did THE MOST despicable thing a therapist could do. It would be unacceptable if DW had seen her because she was having problems with assertiveness at work. But sexual abuse?! Oh absolutely no fucking way us there anything remotely acceptable. What she did was abuse. It's horrific.

She's likely to be highly manipulative as she in essence groomed DW and it sounds like she's started again already.

I would find out where she's registered - if anywhere - and report this. It wouldn't change her ability to practice in the U.K. but at least it would be on file somewhere. It's despicable.

I say all this as someone who has spent 6 years (so far) studying psychology and psychotherapy.

Honestly, it's heartbreaking reading what she's done to DW. I wish I could tell you how to get rid of her but I can't. Maybe an option is to go to couples therapy to discuss this because another counsellor is likely to be appalled by this and may be able to convey the danger of this woman better than you who can be dismissed as "jealous"?

To be clear I don't want to ruin this woman's career or get revenge on her, I just want her to back off.

I do feel jealously sometimes, mainly when my wife gets all silly and soppy about her saying how wonderful she is. She will defend her to the hilt if I say anything negative about her behaviour.

Wife even suggested seeing her again for more therapy a few years ago and seemed surprised at my horrified reaction. I talked her out of it thankfully.

Thank you @ahumanfemale really appreciate your post. I am so upset about how she's manipulated my wife over the years.

I'm a therapist and just reading this is making me angry!
It's absolutely 100% unacceptable!
This should NEVER ever happen. It's an absolute abuse of power.

This week I had long discussion with someone I supervise about whether it would be appropriate for her to send a Congratulations card to a patient she's just finished with, in with the discharge letter, (as he's just had an exciting life event,) or whether that would be too unboundaried. Just to illustrate how seriously we normally take boundaries.

Whilst technically they were both consenting adults, there is a massive power imbalance that it why these things are frowned upon. If this were the only thing that mattered then teachers and 6th formers over 16 should be considered appropriate. Perhaps take that angle with your wife?

Definitely sounds like she was manipulated, it's almost akin to how MJ in the documentary made people feel special.

Completely agree that it's easier for her to get away with something like this with her being female.

It's more extreme than teachers and sixth formers. In sexual abuse very often boundaries that should be safe and loving are twisted to the advantage of the abuser. So they're made to seem safe and loving/caring, but are actually abusive. In therapy one of the things a therapist needs to offer is safe and caring boundaries. That IS part of the therapy. So while having a sexual relationship with a client is massively unacceptable, with a person coming for this reason it's enacting an aspect of the abuse.

It's more like going to the doctor with a broken arm and the doctor telling you they're helping you whilst rebreaking you arm over and over again, all the time telling you they're helping you get better and making are you believe you're being helped.

Except it's actually worse.

She is not fit to practice - wasn't then and still isn't because she clearly has no remorse or shame about their relationship. If she did she would leave your wife well alone.

It's also tricky thought because your wife clearly has strong feelings for this woman, which I can imagine are hard to witness as her wife, but are the result of a profound manipulation/abuse. Any way of reducing them is likely to be painful for her, never mind understanding that again someone misused her. Unless this woman backs off and disappears, which will also be hard for DW, it's unlikely there's a way out of this that's not very painful for DW. If you were my friend I'd tell you this is bigger than you and to look for someone who can help your couple deal with this. I'm really sorry this happened to DW and that the therapist is in your lives.

"I would have thought a therapist behaving in this manner could face disbarment if reported and investigated." Unfortunately anyone can call themselves a therapist and set up in business as one, it's completely unregulated in the uk - which it damn well should be!

I very much doubt this person is a member of a regulatory or professional body, but if she is - damn straight I'd be reporting her arse to them! Like hell would I be worried about "wrecking her career"

A - she's done that herself - it may even be why she ended up abroad! Have you googled her thoroughly? Perhaps including words like "inappropriate" "boundaries" "sexual misconduct" ?

B - she shouldn't be treating ANYONE

She's behaved atrociously.

They were NOT both consenting adults as the power dynamic meant op's wife was vulnerable and therefore unable to properly consent.

That she's now trying to inveigle her way into your lives would definitely concern me - like hell would I let someone like that near any child of mine!

"Maybe an option is to go to couples therapy to discuss this because another counsellor is likely to be appalled by this and may be able to convey the danger of this woman better than you who can be dismissed as "jealous"?" Excellent idea - but make sure they are well qualified and accredited and belong to a professional body.

No way is that ok on any level! My skin is crawling at your description of how she keeps trying to insert herself into your lives. I would want to report her to her regulatory body if she has one, your wife may well not be the only one she has done this to and it wasn't just the relationship, everything she has done since crosses the boundaries of a therapeutic relationship. I know you said you checked the bacp but there's another one called ukcp you could check, if she is registered there I would report her.

Thank you for the replies. It has really helped to know I am not being over the top about this.

I know there is no point talking to my wife about her 'friend' as is so loyal towards this woman and won't hear a word said against her.

My wife is very close to her sister (who also happens to be a counsellor) and when wife and I were first together I spoke to her sister about how uncomfortable the friendship makes me. I thought her sister might be able to help my wife see this woman is manipulative and abusive. As far as I know only me, sister and therapist know about wife's childhood abuse.

Sister seemed to understand where I was coming from at the time but it was tricky as the friendship was already very well established. Things have clearly changed as the therapist and sister now appear to be good friends! They went on holiday together and there was even talk of them sharing a flat at one point. As wife's sister had the same upbringing as wife I suspect she may also struggle to understand boundaries.

This therapist, my wife and her sister all share a specific interest (initiated by therapist) and meet up regularly along with others for this shared interest. I have been a few times too. Now therapist is back in the country this will be happening a lot. The more I think about it the more creeped out I feel about this woman infiltrating all parts of my wife's life and everyone she is close to.

So thinking about what I can do.

Option 1 - suggest couples counselling. I am reluctant to do this as aside from this interfering woman wife and I have a great relationship and I don't want to spark off my wife's anxiety or make her worry I am not happy or thinking of leaving her.

Option 2 - meet this woman one on one and tell her exactly why I am uncomfortable with the friendship and that I want her to have nothing to do with me or the kids. The fall out from this is likely to be significant.

Option 3 - try and avoid her as much as possible and tolerate her when I have to

Any other options gratefully received.

Yes I think it’s dodgy but that sort of thing goes on all the time. Before I was married, I once had an ambulance called to my house and one of the paramedics was fit as anything. He contacted me on FB and we ended up dating for about 3 months. Probably very unethical but the sex was great 👍

You sound really lovely but I think you sound a bit too considerate of your wife's feelings.
Take up space in your relationship and let her take responsibility for any anxiety she has.
You're both adults.
You have a right to your reluctance to support this friendship.

I suppose a long time has passed which probably has significance in some ways.
But I wouldn't trust this woman as far as I could throw her as she is unethical.

(Am a qualified counselor although currently in another line of work. Also a lesbian who has seen decades-long relationships where one woman's feelings and often legacy of abuse tiptoed around to the detriment of the other woman and it doesn't work - truly)

Depends if the therapist is accredited. Anyone can call themselves a councillor or a therapist.

Very much this.
It must be maddening to properly trained therapists who belong to professional bodies.
Yes, of course it's wrong.

What if a GP did the same?

This may out me, but I'm due a name change anyway. I'm professionally involved with counsellors (proper ones, all registered with BACP and other regulatory bodies) and have had one (male) counsellor enter into a sexual relationship with a (female) client. I had to report him to the BACP, COSCA (the regulatory board in Scotland) and dismiss him for gross misconduct. He'll never be able to work as a registered counsellor again.
No op, it's not OK to have a relationship with a client. It goes against ethical principles, and the power dynamic is so utterly skewed in favour of the counsellor. I'd liken it to a teacher and underage pupil.

The only way that this would be OK is of there was a significant length of time between their therapeutic relationship ending and their Swedish one starting.

Here, in my industry, six months is cited as a minimum, although in other places 3 years is standard.

Invite her round and be nice to her and ask her very directly why she got into a relationship with a client and is it something she makes a habit of as it's such a no no. Kill her with kindness. Tell her your wife thinks a lot of her but you struggle with the boundary being crosses, albeit so long ago. If she thinks you're on her case she might back off with the friendship with your wife.

their Swedish one starting.

I may not have read the thread well enough or this is one of those nuisance-y autocorrect things that happen to me a lot, but it strikes me as an excellent euphemism

Anyway. Just a silly and, I realise, not useful.
As you were.

I’d the therapist was a member of a professional body she would be kicked out.

What a mess. I think you are right to be wary of this woman, I actually find it quite unsettling that she has wormed her way in to so many aspects of your wife's life. I can't believe she is a real therapist to behave like this, my DP had a therapist who apologised profusely to him after she had seen us out with our DD and she smiled and almost walked over to see her. She didn't do anything wrong, but it shows how seriously they take boundaries if professional.

So difficult to know what to do in this situation, a positive outcome without conflict seems a vanishingly slim chance. I would make sure that this woman does not have access to your DC though, put your foot down on that.

You are not being in the least bit unreasonable.

It is concerning that your wife cannot understand how deeply wrong this is. There is absolutely no excuse for the way this therapist behaved.

Your boundaries now need to be very clear indeed. Your number one priority is to keep your children away from this person. Perhaps if you keep your focus on that, other decisions will become clearer. In my book this would mean that she (the ex-therapis) doesn’t come into the house; that you yourself do not socialise with her; and that’s she absolutely 100%, never has anything to do with the kids.

It’s not going to be easy. Getting couples counselling is an excellent idea. I don’t think that you can let the possibility that this will make your wife anxious deflect you from getting some outside help.

Sounds like she's trying to impose herself in your wife's life.

This sounds like the start of a very creepy film.