To think that owning a second home to use as a holiday home is extremely selfish?

[benadrylcucumberpatch]

It would be a different story if there was a surplus of vacant properties . As it stands holiday home owners turn communities into ghost towns, inflate prices in desirable areas (many of which are rural with low wages) and displace people who would live in the property full time.

Aibu to think this is selfish and reprehensible? Why are such people not villified for taking more than they need in such an extreme way?

This thread seems to have touched a nerve with you, judging by the increasingly hysterical tone if your posts. If you feel so secure in your beliefs why have you been on this thread for days being unpleasant to anyone who disagrees with you?

Its getting quite boring when you and your friend employ your usual tactics. Is this really so important to you that you actually have to go around insulting people? Its a thread on an internet discussion group - get a sense of perspective. You have previously told me that I "sound like an awful person", and now you are telling me that I am "increasingly hysterical".

Your tactic is to deliberately aggravate perfectly decent people and then blame them when they try to defend themselves. You can't even manage a reasonable discussion without doing any of that.

It really isn't 'bullying' to dissaprove of the way someone spends their money when it does impact on others. Stop being so pathetically fragile.

But what you're doing is trying to bully people on here, which presumably is all you can do because you can't do anything in your own life away from here to make you feel better. Or perhaps you are a bully in real life too.

Also I do work full time and when I'm not work on side projects to increase my future eating potential. So you can fuck right off with your caricatures of useless people moaning while doing nothing.

Lovely choice of language you have there dear. You are a caricature actually, but not a very nice or aspirational one.

I will continue to post where and when I like on mumsnet. It has absolutely zero to do with you.

Have a little think about why insulting people and swearing at them on the internet makes you feel good about yourself. And to think you have the cheek to tell someone they sound like an awful person!

benadrylcumberbitch Also I am in no way jealous of people with second homes. It is something I do not aspire to.

Heres a newsflash. It isn't all about you. Leave people alone to enjoy themselves and get another hobby that doesn't involve abusing people who don't share the same interests as you.

Hey guys it's getting a bit heated... Can we all agree that everyone has a good point no matter where we are in a debate?

1. People should not be penalised for hard work.
2. The economic system we are in is not fair to everyone.

We all have a point, and it's hard to say what the answer is but ultimately we should all be pissed at the banks imo for making things so hard for people to have a mortgage on a lower income.

I am not sure what people imagine under "it not being fair".

And how could banks make it easier for people on low income while still acting responsibly as they are supposed to? They must check if someone can afford a mortgage. If you are paying off other debts, it will eat into what you can afford. Same as if you have nothing left by the end of a month. Yes, mortgage payments are usually cheaper than rent, but if the difference is, let's say £200 a month, than you will have only £200 extra and if anything happens, you are doomed. When you own house, something crops up all the time.
Banks must assure you can afford the payments even if interests rise.
It's somewhat shit, but it's understandable.

I am not sure what people imagine under "it not being fair".

Are you saying that the economic system we are in is completely fair and no one has an advantage due to privileges they were born with? There are rags to riches stories, sure, but there is also plenty of property swallowed up through shady dealings via nepotism, tax havens, and money laundering... It's not honest to say Steve from your local council estate was born with the same opportunities in life as someone like David Cameron.

And how could banks make it easier for people on low income while still acting responsibly as they are supposed to?

1. Long term fixed rates that last the life of a mortgage (this happens in other countries)
2. Good rental history should be taken as part of a mortgage application. So if someone has paid on time for 3+ years then that should be taken in to consideration.
3. 100% mortgage. If someone can afford £1000 per month in rent, then they can afford a £800 per month mortgage regardless of deposit.

@gingerbreadsprinkle was just making sure.

The thing is though. It can't be fair, can it. We can't all be the same, start the same and finish the same. Shame, but it just wouldn't work.

benadryl Also I do work full time and when I'm not work on side projects to increase my future eating potential. but working to increase your future eating potential is selfish as well surely, and will put a strain on the NHS.

I don't think Incandescent has been rude - she has a different perspective to you. I think on the vilification scales owning a second home isn't as bad as drug dealing, running a gang, being a gang master or being involved in organised crime. You know, things that will really hurt people and do so intentionally and knowingly.

We don't live in a communist society where everyone gets the same, and even then some were definitely more equal than others.

Some buy private education, some buy fast cars, some buy diamonds, and some buy holiday homes that could well reduce their carbon footprint by not needing to fly, and puts money into the local economy.

We stay in a holiday cottage that sleeps three or four in a small Devon village that has no mobile signal whatsoever, and you need to drive to get in and out. The cottage has been lovingly refurbished, but with just two of us it feels crowded, as there is more bedroom space than living space and the kitchen is tiny. I don't think a family or even a couple would buy it to live in, and even a singleton might find the living space way too small, let alone the issues with parking. Not every holiday let is suitable as a home.

gingerbread I don't understand why people should feel guilty about what 'privileges' they were born with. One could argue that they didn't ask to be born, and had no choice about the family into which they were born.

We all have opportunities and some we choose not to take. That could be because we aren't as clever as others, aren't as motivated or driven as others, or are lazy (like me) and choose to prioritise other things over career advancement.

Its getting quite boring when you and your friend employ your usual tactics

I'm not sure how I can be employing my usual tactics, or doing so as part of some kind of bullying team when this is my first Mumsnet thread. I think you have me confused with someone else

But what you're doing is trying to bully people on here, which presumably is all you can do because you can't do anything in your own life away from here to make you feel better. Or perhaps you are a bully in real life too.
This is all in your imagination

And to think you have the cheek to tell someone they sound like an awful person!
Just my opinion of you based on your replies on this thread. And I don't see it as cheek when you have expressed your opinions of me, unless you in some way see yourself as above me.

Not every holiday let is suitable as a home

True but a lot are. I am currently round the corner from a 4 bedroom Victorian semi that is owned by a couple who only use it on bank holidays. I work across the road from a 3 bed cottage that is a second home that is empty most if the time. Neither were bought as derelict do up projects.

Obviously there are places that are unsuitable as homes like cabins chalets etc and so it is more like a dacha. But we all know this isn't what is going on the cast majority of the time.

*1. People should not be penalised for hard work.

1. The economic system we are in is not fair to everyone.*

Imo it isn't penalising someone for hard work by discouraging extreme and unnecessary overconsumption with a negative social impact on others.

I don't understand why people should feel guilty about what 'privileges' they were born with. One could argue that they didn't ask to be born, and had no choice about the family into which they were born.

I definitely don't think anyone should feel guilty. I was born privileged because I was born in a modern western country in an affluent state (California) rather than a third world country torn apart by guerilla warfare. I'm in the UK now and I believe everyone in the UK is privileged just for being in the UK with access to healthcare and vaccines.

None of us should feel guilty. But we should encourage that we all have minimum living standards. I think everyone deserves a place to live in that won't make them sick. I think if people were given the chance to own, that property would be better cared for and maybe it would help different communities. The other thing is I think none of us is safe from long term loss, so we all need a safety net. Industries are constantly changing and need less people, whether that's due to outsourcing or automation so it would be better if we all accepted that things are going to become more competitive and not everyone is going to have the chance to be that financial success story.

Yanbu
Where we live is the same so many properties vacant for more than half the year.
I work with homeless people, so have a particular gripe with this.
There is a house opposite me, nothing big or fancy (ex 2 bed council house) bought as a holiday home. People who own it comes down maybe 3 x year. Such a waste when there are family's squeezed in 1 room for months on end waiting for a property to become available

Imo it isn't penalising someone for hard work by discouraging extreme and unnecessary overconsumption

How do you propose discouraging this?

beandrylcumberbitch But what you're doing is trying to bully people on here, which presumably is all you can do because you can't do anything in your own life away from here to make you feel better. Or perhaps you are a bully in real life too.

This is all in your imagination

Here we go again...

Some people just like to feel all unreasonable about perfectly harmless things. Its not just holiday homes, self catering lets have also been attacked on this thread.

Perhaps those posters who object could draw up a handy list of suitably utilitarian holiday options for those lucky enough to be able to afford a holiday, that would be useful. Are caravans and tents permitted?

Me, personally, I don't drink or smoke, so I guess I have quite a spare bit of disposable income from not doing those things that other people might not have. I personally like to spend my money on property - buying it, doing it up, extending it, whatever. I might at some point in the future buy a holiday home.

Benadrylbitch if you could refrain from saying I'm being hysterical or over-imaginative or need to calm down and come up with a new insult, that would be most welcome. Its highly amusing to see someone tieing themselves up in such knots to appear holier than thou while displaying such anti-social tendencies.

Imo it isn't penalising someone for hard work by discouraging extreme and unnecessary overconsumption with a negative social impact on others.

In the case of second houses, the stamp duty is over and above first houses by 3/5/8% at increasing thresholds.

Obviously, extreme and unnecessary overconsumption means different things to different people.

I think the word 'privilege' is getting overused. I am white, so 'privileged', but I am female, so 'underprivileged'. I can't help my skin colour, or where I was born, or that I am female. I had no choice in any of those things, so I don't see why I have to feel thankful for them. (I am equally ungrateful and blame my Mum entirely for the lack of length in my legs and the width of my hips).

Access to the NHS and vaccines isn't a privilege, it is something that the UK taxpayer funds in order to increase community well being and herd immunity. We pay for it, so saying we are privileged because we use something for which we pay is strange.

People don't always want to own. My paternal grandmother lived in the same rented house for decades, only moving to sheltered accommodation when she could no longer manage, and moving very reluctantly. She had the chance to buy the house at a very good price as it was in Cambridge, and my parents offered to cover some of the mortgage for it if she wanted. She was horrified at the thought of owning it, and turned it down flat, as she didn't want the responsibility of looking after the fabric of the building. The house was always clinically spotless and sterile inside, but she couldn't cope with the thought of having to deal with the other stuff inherent in owning a property. That house, having just checked Zoopla, is worth £388,000. That was an opportunity missed.

Perhaps the objections to holiday homes are more to do with not liking outsiders coming to your part of the world to holiday?

I've seen a couple of similar threads on social media in recent weeks about cruise ships visiting some British islands (remarks such as "those people don't spend enough in local shops", and the ships themselves being bitterly criticised for being too big and too polluting) and hotel guests in Edinburgh causing the city to be busy and the streets to be crowded, also putting up hotel prices, so much so, that the Council is wanting to introduce a tourist tax. -Presumably to reduce the numbers or punish them for visiting?- But aren't cities meant to be busy? By the sound of some of the critics, they expect it to be like a quiet rural village.

If I ever start behaving like that to visitors, please shoot me. Unless someone is actually doing something wrong, I hope I would be welcoming to a stranger who has gone to the trouble of visiting the area in which I live.

There is a house opposite me, nothing big or fancy (ex 2 bed council house) bought as a holiday home. People who own it comes down maybe 3 x year. Such a waste when there are family's squeezed in 1 room for months on end waiting for a property to become available

I agree that in some places the goose that lays the golden egg has been well and truly killed as the town is no longer a quaint fishing village but just a tourist destination (and the same happens to big places too - Barcelona old town being a victim).

But , who is entitled to the property? Why should this family of whom the OP speaks get the house in what is presumably a nice place? Why not a family from a miserable place? What if the family who visit 3 times a year are locals originally but have moved away for work? What if they are intending to retire there?

Access to the NHS and vaccines isn't a privilege, it is something that the UK taxpayer funds in order to increase community well being and herd immunity. We pay for it, so saying we are privileged because we use something for which we pay is strange.

Naturally it is privilege. We are both privileged to be born in a time in the UK where these things exist. If we were born in medieval times we would just catch the plague and call it a day. If you think about it we are even more privileged than some historical royals who died of disease that we can treat easily now. Just because we pay for it doesn't mean much, we are privileged to have enough wealth as a country to be able to afford it. That wealth comes from taxpayers and those taxpayers work for multinational corporations that have specifically chosen the UK to operate in.... Again privileged. You are white, so you are statistically less likely to be a victim of crime. It's privilege whether we want to recognise it or not.

MInd you, cruise ships is another issue and I do think they are a blight. It's true, the passengers do not spend ashore. Each ship disgorges hundreds if not thousands of people who clog up a town, milling round and keeping their hand on their ha'penny as they're all inclusive back on board.

As I've already said earlier in the thread, I have no issue with people visiting. I have no issue with people moving to a new area if they are going to live in the house they bought. Why would I?

I am not against holiday homes that are let out and so frequently occupied .

What I started this discussion about is those who purchase a second house for their own sole use so that it is empty most of the time.

It's incredibly frustrated that people are missing the vast difference between these things and going off on mad tangents accusing me and anyone who agrees with all kinds of things .

Wonder how many people who dislike second homes voted for the government who allowed the sell off of council homes...........Often these areas are Tory safe seats!