to think that people have no idea how to apply for jobs?!

[myteenytinyteapot]

Just that really. Hiring for a senior admin person at the moment and have had hundreds of applications but honestly only about four shortlistable ones. I have had:

• CVs which include full-length glamour model style photographs of applicants
• CVs without cover letters when the advert clearly asks for a cover letter
• CVs and cover letters riddled with spelling and grammatical errors
• CVs which are 20 pages long and go into loads of detail about the hobbies and interests of the applicant. Also hardly anyone uses page numbers!
• Cover letters which are obviously just generic copied and pasted mass send out jobs - "I am writing to apply for the position advertised". Couldn't even be arsed to put in the job title!
• People applying who don't have any of the essential requirements listed

AIBU that I'm not surprised people can't get jobs if this is the general standard considered acceptable?!

For people who are spending several hours on an application, I have an idea. What if instead you spent an initial day or two typing up examples from your whole career (or as far back as you wish) of things like team working, attention to detail, what you did when something went wrong, organisation skills etc. The typical things you get asked on an application form.

That way when you come to do an application you can copy and paste (and of course tweak) relevant examples to the role you're applying for. This will also serve you well for interviews.

@FenellaVelour
Worst I’ve ever seen was [email protected] 😳

Wow, you recruited the leader of the Labour Party?

I'm generally self-employed, which should protect me from some of this, except at the moment. Went for a p/t interim role, and in my cover letter advised I was away on holiday for a certain period (as it looked as if it might be around the time when they'd interview). I also, as requested, advised what my day-rate would be for the work. First I got back an email saying that they were planning to pay less, would I still be interested. Well, yes, but why not put the rate of pay on the job information, if they already knew what it was going to be? Then I got back an invitation to interview, during the period when I'm on holiday. So, I said that I'd be away - and reminded them that I'd already told them this. To which I got back .... nothing. A day later, I have no idea whether I'm still being considered for the role or not...

Seriously, put the damn range on the listing. It can be a big range. I'm not gonna waste my time to apply for jobs that pay significantly less. Also I'm not gonna apply for jobs that pay significantly more. The listings are so vague and makes it seem like the 15k and the 40k jobs have same expectations. Also my worth is a guess work. I checked different sites for what I should ask and the range was 15k-70k. Its a guess work. Then you go to interview and realize your range you provided was off.

For the salary bit, when I have had that I have usually responded with the answer I want to give, which is not necessarily the question they asked (in true MN style!)

So they might say "What is your current salary?" (annoying as pp say, completely irrelevant anyway!).

I would reply with "I am looking for a package in the region of £65-73k"

Benefits:

• It's specific enough to make it look like you know what you're on about
• The employer knows from the start what ballpark you are in (and I'd advise the lower figure be the top end of what you actually want)
• "Package" is vague enough that it could mean any combination of base salary, bonus, pension and/or benefits; and you can then get more specific later down the line to suit!

(All this assuming you don't have one of the rare breed of very good agents negotiating for you)

I saw a [email protected] on a CV once.

Regarding salary, I lie every time when asking about my salary expectations.

I have usually left the previous job due to being there a few years, taking on extra work/learning new skills/overtime etc and not getting a penny extra, not even for inflation.

I have to exaggerate what I got paid because my new employer is likely to do the same and I need to factor in the cost of living going up over the next few years.

I have once advertised for a role without a salary and I did it because I worked in a profession where salary usually increases with years of experience- it’s a consultancy role, and the seniority of the consultant dictates what I could charge clients - but not really the complexity of the tasks that a person could work on - and my profit margin would be the same either way. E.g. roughly speaking (I can’t remember the actual numbers)

I could hire:

Person A - 3 years doing the job, consultant level, salary £40k, charge out rate £400

Person B - 7 years doing the job, senior consultant level, salary £60k, charge out rate £600

It genuinely made no difference to me which of the people I hired, person A makes me more able to deliver work to clients with lower budgets, person B brings more prestige for clients who can pay - so I wanted to see a wide range of people along the experience continuum. It wouldn’t be worth my while paying £60K to person A as I would loose money, and person B wouldn’t apply if I advertised the salary at £40k - so I did say that salary was ‘Dependent on Experience’ - and it worked well. But I do get that this is used as an excuse to pay less, and is damaging to the quest for equal pay for men and women.

I now volunteer for a charity giving feedback on CVs and job applications for young people and partly as a result of this - and from a need to do something which is more about people, and more focused on working towards an equal society I’m about to start studying a masters so I can be a Careers Adviser- I’d like to work in Schools Or universities when I graduate and will hopefully be able to support people to understand how to avoid some of the pitfalls listed above, but some juicy examples I can add:

“I have good attention to detail and” (didn’t finish the sentence)

“Excellent Microsoft Word Skills” (formatting is a a disaster)

Hobbies and Interests are always good - “surfing the internet” (spends all day on Mumsnet), “socialising with friends” (in the pub)

Profiles which are all about their dog, a candidate who listed taxidermy as a hobby (later said it was a lie, just thought it would be a discussion point 😬)

And the posters above who asked how to cover a gap in employment- my thought is that it’s always best to make gaps seem intentional. And to provide very basic information without too much detail - you don’t want to include anything which sets alarm bells ringing, but if you don’t say anything at all an employee could assume you spent two years watching Jeremy Kyle. Employers are human though and know that life happens - but if you were recovering from an accident, I would just say ‘Career Break’ and then if asked in interview, you can say you took some time off to recover from an accident and that you are now fully recovered and looking for your next challenge.

Some examples I have seen which I have quite liked

May 2017 - July 2019, Career Break

May 2017 - July 2019, Career Break to care for children (or family member)

May 2017 - July 2019, Career Break to travel in Europe

Etc

"socialising"

Is about the lamest, dullest thing you can write. What does it MEAN?

Does it mean you spend from 9am Saturday to 10pm Sunday down the local Wetherspoons; or are you medieval LARPing; or are you in charge of Dragonboat racing for the whole West of England?

All things that you can actually talk about with some interest and real enthusiasm - and who knows, your interviewer might have signed up to their local dragonboat club the night before they read your CV!

Be a real life, interesting person in an interview, not just a collection of tired clichés on a word doc.

If they supply the salary range in the job description, and then ask you at interview where you'd expect to fall in that range, never lowball. If you have the skills and experience, always ask for top of the range. If you don't, ask for midrange. Chances are, if you've done badly at the interview, it won't matter, and if you've done well, they'll want you enough to agree.

I have to exaggerate what I got paid

you do know that the company will know your exact salary when they get your P45 don't you.

Even more annoying - asking you what your current salary is. None of your business.

except, it is.

If you are paid a lot more than the current package, they need to understand why you are willing to accept a big pay cut , if you are realistic - or just desperate and will keep looking for a better paid job and leave at the first opportunity.
Some candidates have excellent reasons, others are obviously there until something better pops up.

If you are paid a lot less, they need to clarify your current role too.
The number of people who are "manager" or "team leader" because they answer the phone for their boss one day is staggering. Of course you want to boost your CV, but knowing what you can do is fairly crucial.

Of course your current salary matters -if it's on a completely different level, you might have valid reasons but they are not wrong to ask.

It was me who asked about the CV gap - thank you for that, Bouncebacker

I used to talk about handwriting when asked about biggest weakness. Truthfully I can either write nicely or but at snail's pace or a bit less slowly but extremely untidily. So if I need to write something by hand and have it look professional, it takes me longer that it would most people. If I'm in a long meeting during which I have to take notes, I record it (after letting everyone know) and write them up afterwards. I can do this effectively by jotting down the time whenever something important comes up. Then when I go back through the recording, I can skip on to those times.

I got the job both times I used this.

This is a soul destroying thread, when my late partner died 4 years ago i'd left my job of 27 years to care for him, i looked for another job had no idea about filling in a CV etc, i'd go for an interview the person interviewing me asked some really stupid questions. It's not showing respect for the OP by having a go at people over CV applications, shameful

It’s a small thing but I like when people put really specific things in their hobbies and interests section. ‘In my spare time I collect early 20th century crime novels, am trying to master the art of baking the perfect sourdough loaf, and attend a lot of live gigs’ gives much more of a flavour of a person than ‘reading, baking, socialising with friends’.

This is a soul destroying thread, when my late partner died 4 years ago i'd left my job of 27 years to care for him, i looked for another job had no idea about filling in a CV etc, i'd go for an interview the person interviewing me asked some really stupid questions. It's not showing respect for the OP by having a go at people over CV applications, shameful

I am sorry about what happened to you but I don't understand how this thread can be soul destroying. And I really don't think it's shameful to talk about how little thought often people put in their CV and applications considering the vast amount of information and advice available.

Those of you who recruit, could you answer a question for me please .

I’ve recently been made redundant so am spending most of my time job hunting and filling out flipping application forms .

With the section that will normally say “tell us how you meet the job spec” or “supporting statement” etc, do you need to make sure that you cover EVERY SINGLE POINT on the job spec? Even when the job/person spec is massively long?!
Currently filling one out at the minute and there is 48 points on the job spec. Surely if I went through and tried to cover every single one of those, I would end up going on and on and on? As a recruiter is that what you want or would you prefer something more condensed down?

The number of people who are "manager" or "team leader" because they answer the phone for their boss one day is staggering. Of course you want to boost your CV, but knowing what you can do is fairly crucial.

Interestingly, it also works the other way 'round. Everywhere else that I know people at my level are called "manager" some way or other. Except in my office. Which means I get notes of interest on LinkedIn for roles that pay a goof £10-15k less than what I'm on - for less interesting work also.

This thing seems to go in waves, the job title bigging up.

CookieBlue

I'd expect most of the essential person spec points to be addressed, yes. How long are you talking?

It would be fine for two similar things to be combined into one. For example if one point is excellent IT skills and the other is knowledge of Sage or whatever, you could combine those two.

happyhillock

I am sorry about your partner

But there really, these days, isn't that much excuse to not know how to do a CV. A quick Google will give you all the answers you need to make a good start.

@myteenytinyteapot I’m trying to keep them as short as possible while still covering all points listed in the job spec. Maybe one page of a4? I’ve had two interviews so far (and another next week) and all three have been CV/tailored cover letter rather than application form, hence why I think I must be going wrong somewhere when it comes to the forms!

I’m looking for part time admin work and I’ve found it quite depressing how many people are applying for these type of roles. One had 592 applicants . Another over 300. How do you compete and stand out against so many others?!

I’m looking for part time admin work and I’ve found it quite depressing how many people are applying for these type of roles. One had 592 applicants shock. Another over 300. How do you compete and stand out against so many others?!

To be brutal, its because the roles you are applying for ARE so oversubscribed - with people exactly like you. Capable, competent, experienced. Part time admin jobs are the holy grail for many people (by which I don't mean to belittle, but not the sort of Big Career job where you have to be willing and able to travel or work evenings and weekends at short/no notice etc, take on masses of responsibility etc as a deliberate tactic to climb the greasy pole) .

Why interview 30 or 50 (or all!) people when you know you've got a great candidate in #2 through the door? Or even better, someone already knows someone.

Suggestion: can you use previous experience to offer a specialism so you're not left applying for the bog standard office admin roles that everyone else is?

A company might want a fulltime e.g.:

....payroll manager, specialist HR advisor; contracts manager; documentation expert, legacy IT sysad etc etc....

But that is a limited pool of talent, so they may be much more open to a great part timer than nothing at all!

if someone hid the wage than I assume it's because it's laughably low.

I'm not sure why they do this. I recently started a new job which didn't state the salary in the job advert. They asked me how much my current job paid me (similar job I had been doing for years) - then offered me 3k more. I was honestly expecting them to go lower.