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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Was she being unreasonable?

50 replies

ProfessionalBullshitter · 15/07/2019 10:21

I have no vested interest in this at all. Just curious to know what others would have made of this.

On the tube this morning. It was quite busy - not rammed - but all seats were taken and maybe ten people were standing in the carriage. I was sitting next to the priority seat. Sitting in the priority seat was a man in his mid-twenties, dressed in a suit, engrossed in watching something on his phone. No obvious disability.

A woman on crutches got on. She paused opposite twenty-something guy sitting next to me in the priority seat, waiting for him to notice her and get up. But either he didn’t notice her, or he was ignoring her. (There was also a man sitting in the other priority seat opposite twenty-something guy, but he was elderly).

But the woman on crutches hadn’t noticed that when she got on the tube, the man sitting opposite me on the second seat on the row, had already jumped up to offer her his seat.

The woman on crutches started to huff because twenty-something guy was oblivious to her. But then the man opposite me tapped her on the shoulder to indicate that he’d given up his seat for her. So she sat down and for the whole rest of the journey (6 stops or so) she was giving evil dagger stares to twenty-something guy. Who was still oblivious.

Crutches woman and I got off at the same stop. As she got up to leave the train she leant down into twenty-something guy’s face and said something like “I hope no one ever offers you a seat if you need one.”

At first I thought ‘yeah, you tell him!’ I’ve commuted on the tube when I was heavily pregnant and it was always the youngest, fittest looking blokes who would studiously ignore you, and it was usually lovely middle-aged women who would stand up for you.

But then on the other hand I though maybe crutches woman was being a bit harsh. I mean, in principle twenty-something guy should have got up because he was in a priority seat. But the woman got a seat offered to her straight away - albeit not the priority seat - so did she really need to have a go at him?

I’m in two minds. And figured this was a perfect one for AIBU to arbitrate.

So, was the woman on crutches U to shout at selfish twenty-something guy, or was she unnecessarily harsh?

PS: Before anyone says it: I am ALWAYS the person who gives us their seat. As I said, I’ve commuted when heavily pregnant so I’m very aware of offering my seat to others who need it more. I would have happily given crutches woman my seat but the man opposite me saw her before me and had already jumped up.

OP posts:

summerofladybird · 15/07/2019 10:22

She was being unreasonable, you can't always see disabilities.

Choice4567 · 15/07/2019 10:24

I think shouting at him was possibly slightly over the top. Is possible that he hadn’t noticed her, and she had the option to ask for the seat. If she’d stood near him and asked to sit there as it was a priority seat and he’d refused, obviously a different matter.

Pinktinker · 15/07/2019 10:26

Disabilities can be invisible so she was being hugely unreasonable imo. She was given a seat so I really can’t see how or why she made such a huge deal of this.

ScreamingValenta · 15/07/2019 10:28

The crutches woman should have asked the 20-something man to vacate the seat.

Let's assume for the sake of argument that he didn't have a hidden disability - it's still not unreasonable of him to take the priority seat if all other seats are full; and he shouldn't be expected to scan the passengers getting on at each stop to determine whether his seat is needed. If she had asked him and he had refused, then she WNBU - as she didn't ask, she WBU.

Floralnomad · 15/07/2019 10:28

She was unreasonable . My 20yo dd has CFS/ME and looks perfectly fit to anybody just looking at her but she couldn’t stand up for any great length of time . Also if she wanted to have a go at him she should have done so when she first got on so that he had right of reply .

RB68 · 15/07/2019 10:29

she would have been less unreasonable if she had asked him and given him the option to say yes and get up or I am sorry I need it. Disabilities can be invisible but I don't think you can assume anything and the seats are labelled be prepared to give up the seat to someone who needs it more. This does not preculde someone with an invisible disability giving it up to someone with an infirmity

ShatnersWig · 15/07/2019 10:30

Did you see the twenty-something guy get off the tube? Are you sure he didn't have a physical disability himself that wasn't evident until he moved?

Maybe he has a disability that isn't visible. How do you know?

I hate the whole "no obvious disability" type comment. Because, quite frankly, you've got no bloody idea, have you? You just assume that if you can't see it yourself, there probably isn't one.

And maybe you're right. But maybe you're not. She was bang out of order.

HeadsDownThumbsUpEveryone · 15/07/2019 10:31

She was hugely unreasonable.

Firstly she didn't know if the young man was in need of the seat just because he was young and a man doesn't preclude him from needing a priority seat.

Secondly she got a fucking seat so what was there to complain about?

Some people like to argue for the sake of arguing.

MyOpinionIsValid · 15/07/2019 10:31

TBH anyone can use a priority seat, until someone who actually needs it requires it. As you say the bod was engrossed in his phone, oblivious to anyone, so she could have asked him for the seat. It's a two way thing.

Had he been gazing round and ignored her - then she might have a point.

TheInvestigator · 15/07/2019 10:31

I don't know. He should have moved, but if he genuinely didn't see then she should have said "excuse me, I need the priority seat". She didn't. He might have had his own need for it and that could have been mentioned, but he didn't see her and she didn't ask. Then she got all shitty with him. It's a stupid way to behave.

When I was heavily pregnant, I was sitting on the busy subway. Massive bag on my lap so no one could see my stomach. An old man got on... the carriage was full of men in suits. I have a baby face and was wearing a summer dress... He marched up half the carriage, stood in front of me and barked at me to get up so he could sit down. I said I needed the seat so he could ask one of the 2 dozen men in suits. He had a go at me and said "I hope you enjoy gettinf a disability. I moved my bag to reveal my pregnant belly. Not one of the men sitting around jumped in to offer a seat or defend me against his abuse. It really upset me. Being old or having an injury or disability may entitle you to a seat, but it doesn't give you free reign to be a complete dick and that woman sounds like she was verging into being a dick territory.

florentina1 · 15/07/2019 10:34

People on the tube can be self absorbed and not notice. I am elderly but very fit. Yesterday the tube was busy, no seats but lots of standing room. A large family got on and their two boys were larking about on the central pole. They were not in anyone’s way, just having some fun.

At the next stop a man got up carrying a white stick. I got up and said, “Would you like this seat?”. I leant over to touch his arm as I spoke to him. One of the boys replied very politely, “no thank you, I’m OK.”.

In what world does an old woman give her seat to young fit man? I was embarrassed for him so, I walked down the train as far away as I could. It really made me chuckle.

Sciurus83 · 15/07/2019 10:37

Honestly I think if you sit in a priority seat and don't need it you should be keeping an eye/ear out ready to give it up when other passengers get on who need it. That means not being engrossed in something with headphones on, priority seats are there for a reason and the person in them should be aware that they aren't in a regular seat

Original poster

ProfessionalBullshitter · 15/07/2019 10:38

II hate the whole "no obvious disability" type comment. Because, quite frankly, you've got no bloody idea, have you?*

What’s wrong with saying ‘no obvious disability’? He wasn’t obviously disabled. That’s just an objective observation.

I don’t assume that everyone in a priority seat has a hidden disability. Because I have no disabilities but I often sit in the priority seat if it’s free and no one else needs it. And I am very confident in saying that I’m sure lots of other able-bodied people do this too.

It’s totally reasonable to assume that twenty-something guy was just as likely to be able-bodied as to have a hidden disability.

OP posts:

CCquavers · 15/07/2019 10:42

I would have asked out loud if anyone is able to give up their priority seat for me. If your bolshy enough to shout in faces as you leave train surely you raise your voice to ask politely for a seat?

El0die · 15/07/2019 10:45

Yes she was BU.
She got a seat quickly.
The young guy might be visually impaired - and thus not have seen her AND entitled to his seat.
He might have had another disability not apparent to her.
It's just plain rude to have a go. It'll send her blood pressure sky high and you sort of lose the moral high ground- IF you had it in the first place.

FriarTuck · 15/07/2019 10:49

I think that if someone is sat in the priority seat and doesn't offer you the seat then you should assume that they need it. End of. You may need it too but at that point you should ask the carriage if anyone could give you their seat - not just the priority seat. Maybe they'll then get up, maybe not.
In this one she was completely wrong - she'd been given a seat (and without needing to ask). She had no idea what his situation was and she was just rude for the sake of it.

MRex · 15/07/2019 10:56

If she was on crutches then a seat at the end with the pole would have been easier for her, not just any seat. I can understand the frustration, I wanted to shout at the man who pretended not to speak English (while reading the metro) to avoid giving me a seat at a very obvious 7 months pregnant. Someone else gave me a seat but it meant awkwardly squeezing my bump round several people to get in and out. The problem is, you can't just shout at people, even when they're knobs, because then you're annoying multiple other people. I don't have the heart to criticise her much because it's so hard navigating the tube with the slightest of issues but she was unreasonable.

I doubt he had any disabilities or he would more likely have apologised and said so. It does remind me that many years back I had a sprained ankle on the bus and apologised to an elderly woman for not getting up because my ankle was bad, who sat behind me (there were other spare seats, but I wanted the pole) and bitched with her friend about "young people pretending to have injuries to get the best seats" and then said "look at her pretending to limp" when I got off the bus, so you really can't win.

GabsAlot · 15/07/2019 10:58

What was his reply-maybe he genuinely didnt notice her-but ive seen alot of people just sit in those seats and not look up the whole journey

Karigan195 · 15/07/2019 10:59

Neither you nor she knows if he has something like MS which effects balance on trains or some other problem that made him need that seat.

So yes I think she was unreasonable.

newmomof1 · 15/07/2019 11:11

She was unreasonable. Even if he isn't disabled, she didn't need to be rude as she had a seat.

What would she have done if the seats were full of elderly people?

Crutches are there for support anyway so surely, if she had to, she could have stood relatively comfortably.

Thegirlwithnousername · 15/07/2019 11:13

How does she know he didn't have a disability?
Not all disabled need crutches/Sticks/Wheelchairs etc..

Magenta82 · 15/07/2019 11:13

in times like this I always think of my brother's friend who has no legs, he has prosthetics so it isn't always obvious. He has received a huge amount of abuse from people who thought he was getting something he wasn't entitled to, especially when he was younger. Had he have been sitting on that seat wearing trousers then that woman might have shouted at him, he shouldn't need to justify why he needs that seat.

One time years ago he was driving his suped up (hand control adapted) car with his music blaring and was about to swing into a disabled bay when a woman stood in the space to prevent him from parking, she refused to move because the space was for disabled people and he was being nasty and selfish by trying to park there.
He tried to reason with her saying he was entitled to park there but she maintained that he was clearly not disabled.
He removed a leg and held it up saying "Is that disabled enough for you or should I remove the other one and crawl over and beat you with it?"
She then had a go at him for being rude when she was only trying to help disabled people and it was an easy mistake to make because he "didn't look disabled"

NoSauce · 15/07/2019 11:16

She should have asked him to move. IF he had an invisible disability he then could have said so. She shouldn’t have leaned in his face and said what she did imo, after all she had a seat.

Samcro · 15/07/2019 11:20

yabu
not all disabilities are visible

newmomof1 · 15/07/2019 11:20

@NoSauce but then, at the same time, why should he have to explain his disability to her? If he's sat there and not moving for her, she should assume he needs the seat and respect that.

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