Was she being unreasonable?

[ProfessionalBullshitter]

I have no vested interest in this at all. Just curious to know what others would have made of this.

On the tube this morning. It was quite busy - not rammed - but all seats were taken and maybe ten people were standing in the carriage. I was sitting next to the priority seat. Sitting in the priority seat was a man in his mid-twenties, dressed in a suit, engrossed in watching something on his phone. No obvious disability.

A woman on crutches got on. She paused opposite twenty-something guy sitting next to me in the priority seat, waiting for him to notice her and get up. But either he didn’t notice her, or he was ignoring her. (There was also a man sitting in the other priority seat opposite twenty-something guy, but he was elderly).

But the woman on crutches hadn’t noticed that when she got on the tube, the man sitting opposite me on the second seat on the row, had already jumped up to offer her his seat.

The woman on crutches started to huff because twenty-something guy was oblivious to her. But then the man opposite me tapped her on the shoulder to indicate that he’d given up his seat for her. So she sat down and for the whole rest of the journey (6 stops or so) she was giving evil dagger stares to twenty-something guy. Who was still oblivious.

Crutches woman and I got off at the same stop. As she got up to leave the train she leant down into twenty-something guy’s face and said something like “I hope no one ever offers you a seat if you need one.”

At first I thought ‘yeah, you tell him!’ I’ve commuted on the tube when I was heavily pregnant and it was always the youngest, fittest looking blokes who would studiously ignore you, and it was usually lovely middle-aged women who would stand up for you.

But then on the other hand I though maybe crutches woman was being a bit harsh. I mean, in principle twenty-something guy should have got up because he was in a priority seat. But the woman got a seat offered to her straight away - albeit not the priority seat - so did she really need to have a go at him?

I’m in two minds. And figured this was a perfect one for AIBU to arbitrate.

So, was the woman on crutches U to shout at selfish twenty-something guy, or was she unnecessarily harsh?

PS: Before anyone says it: I am ALWAYS the person who gives us their seat. As I said, I’ve commuted when heavily pregnant so I’m very aware of offering my seat to others who need it more. I would have happily given crutches woman my seat but the man opposite me saw her before me and had already jumped up.

Did she ever actual ask for the seat? If he had headphones in and was looking at his phone then maybe he just didn't notice her. He night have needed the seat so I think she was unreasonable when she never even talked to him when she got on.

Yes I see what you mean, but rather than speak to him the way she did at the end I bet he would have rather she just asked him?

She was being unreasonable. When I'm commuting I purposefully zone out. It helps my mental wellbeing to have time when I'm not 'on' and that little train ride actually does me the world of good.

I wouldn't notice if the Queen got on the train when I'm zoned out...but if someone gets my attention and makes a comment I'm perfectly happy to shift if I'm not having a chronic pain flare up.

Having a disability/being in constant pain is not an excuse for poor manners. It would have taken less effort for her to ask the man if she could use the priority seat than it did for her to glower, huff & puff then aggressively berate him.

I loathe the way people take it upon themselves to police the use of disabled facilities as an excuse to abuse other people.

There was a case of a man legitimately using a blue badge parking space in a car park who was murdered by another blue badge holder because he didn't think the victim looked disabled enough to be using the space.

Even if he hadn't been legitimately using the space, nobody deserves to be attacked over a parking space, obviously. But once we allow this culture of abusing people based on how disabled we think they look to become normal and acceptable, it's too easy for it to escalate to even more abhorrent extremes.

I understand why she would be frustrated, because she probably deals with this a lot, but abusing strangers because you're disabled and have appointed yourself disability police is not ok. Such behaviour makes life even more difficult for people with less visible or invisible disabilities who also need to use disabled facilities.

Unacceptable.

Whether he was disabled or not is irrelevant. She didn't make it known to. Him that she was there, he was engrossed in his phone and could absolutely not have seen her. If she had tapped him and asked for the seat and he refused then she has every right to but she didn't ask him for the seat.

IF he had an invisible disability he then could have said so.
I disagree. You shouldn't be in a position of having to justify your seat. It just leads to oneupmanship. Yes it may mean that some people take the piss but then they'd probably lie anyway. If you ask the whole place for a seat then the person in the priority seat has the option of offering.

She was, someone else gave her a seat. Anyone can sit in priority if they are prepared to move, she could've politely asked him to move. Also, my DP is young and in his 20s, wears a suit - he recently tore his knee ligament and standing can cause a lot of pain, but he looks fine, so people would never know he also needs the seat.

You ask or you be prepared to be ignored. I think she was rude and unnecessary.

FriarTuck I can see your point and agree on the whole. I’m just aware that there are so many people that take the piss in these situations and blatantly ignore those needing the space.

I often sit in the priority seat, because why not? If it is free when i get on the train there's no point just leaving it free until a disabled person might need it.

When I am sat on it I still keep an eye out for people who might require it, but even then I won't automatically get up until they ask me to, as I have no idea if they actually want to sit down or not unless they ask.

As others have said not all disabilities are visible. Why did the woman not ask someone for a seat?

I often sit in the priority seat, because why not? If it is free when i get on the train there's no point just leaving it free until a disabled person might need it

This is what causes the problems. People with a need for the seat have to then ask you to move. If you don’t have a disability you should leave the seat free imo.

he shouldn't be expected to scan the passengers getting on at each stop to determine whether his seat is needed

Of course he should, that is exactly what you should be doing if you're in the priority seat and not disabled/pregnant/otherwise in particular need of it. If you choose to take the priority seat, then it's your responsibility to look for people who actually need it.

If he was in the priority seat and there was no seats for her then she could have, politely, checked if he could give it up.

As it was she got a seat and she has no idea if he needed it or not. She was bloody rude. Hopefully she was rude to someone who deserved it, because what a crap start to the day for him if he has MS/ME/Cancer/Narcolepsy/anything else that means he needs a seat.

This annoys the life out of me as my 16yo has narcolepsy. She get shouted at so often on buses and trains because she doesn’t look disabled. Although, usually the upset or fright at being yelled at very quickly makes people realise she is as she ends up on the floor. People are just bloody rude

If you choose to take the priority seat, then it's your responsibility to look for people who actually need it.

I disagree - a layperson on a train can't be expected to make a judgement on who might need a seat - let alone who might be most in need of it - just by looking at them. As pps have pointed out, many disabilities are not visible or obvious. There's a risk of causing offence if you offer your seat to someone who looks pregnant, but isn't - or who you consider to be 'old' but considers themselves to be sprightly and middle-aged.

In this instance, the man didn't 'choose' to sit in the priority seat - all the other seats were full. You might have more of a point if someone was sitting in the priority seat leaving other, less accessible seats vacant.

If someone needs that particular seat the onus is on them to ask for it, politely. The occupier of the seat should then vacate it, unless they have an equal or greater need, in which case they should refuse, also politely.

People with a need for the seat have to then ask you to move. If you don’t have a disability you should leave the seat free imo.

If you leave the seat free on a crowded train or bus then you are just getting in the way, though.

@NoSauce Exactly, they should have to ask if they want to sit down.

I'm not making a judgement call on what kind of disability might warrant the need to sit down, they might prefer to stand. Equally, I think leaving a seat empty on a packed train is stupid

He may have been changing his luck, but he may have had an invisible disability - there’s just no way of knowing!

Although the priority seats are allocated for people who need them, anyone else sitting down also could’ve offered their seats to the woman - not just those in the priority seats (because if anything you assume those in them need them!)

*chancing

Why not sit on it while the bus/train is in motion and then every time someone gets on hover next to it - then someone who genuinely needs it can take it without having to ask and you can sit back down if no-one does.

Why not sit on it while the bus/train is in motion and then every time someone gets on hover next to it - then someone who genuinely needs it can take it without having to ask and you can sit back down if no-one does.

If your 'hovering' is effective in blocking the seat, someone genuinely in need of it would still have to ask.

If your hovering isn't effective in blocking the seat, it's likely that the first able-bodied person to approach would see it as a vacant seat and sit down in it, so you would lose your seat. If losing the seat doesn't bother you, you might as well stand up anyway if there's a shortage of seats, as others might really appreciate a seat even if not disabled, e.g. if they're very tired or suffering a minor illness.

She was unreasonable, she should have asked for a seat.

I would say though in my daily observations of Tube life that 90% of the time, it is a woman who offers up her seat, priority or not. Also people are more likely to ask a woman to give up their seat than a man. Clearly all these besuited men have hidden disabilities

You’re right OP. He may or may not have a disability. However, it’s not your place, nor the woman’s in this scenario to assume either way. So yabu

On the whole I think she was BU. I had to ask a packed, boiling tube carriage to vacate a seat for a heavily pregnant woman with a BOB badge on Friday. I was quite exasperated with the two men sitting in the priority seats but I directed my comment to everyone sitting and someone did get up, but not the men in the priority seat, who prioritised their weekend bags

politeness never hurts & is often more successful - the young man may have an invisible disabilities, been unaware (he was engrossed in his screen), been really tired & zoned out, not spoken English or use to tubes in London (from other place in UK!),

I have a semi-hidden disability (most of the time you wouldn't know from looking at me if you saw me sitting down, but occasionally I need to use a stick) and find it very difficult to stand on public transport. I have developed a thick enough skin to now feel no shame about cheerfully shouting down a full bus/carriage "sorry to bother you, I have a disability - does everyone in a priority seat need it and if so, is anyone else able to give up their seat please?" That means no individual is singled out as having to justify their choice of seat or give their medical history to a stranger. It's fairly rare that I don't get a seat, in fact I often end up with a choice as several polite people jump up to offer me theirs - it has happened occasionally though, in which case I have to get off at the next stop and hope for better luck with the next bus/tube as I genuinely can't stand. But I would never dream of behaving like this woman, SWBVU.