To not give up two of my BOOKED train seats?

[RobynsMama]

I got on an absolutely packed train today with my DD (2 and a half) and my nephews (7&8). I do this journey a fair bit, it’s long, pushing on 6 hours when the service is inevitably delayed and always always heaving at the weekend with people getting on with those open return tickets (you can’t book seats for those afaik).

I’d booked four seats as I was travelling with three kids, my DD would have been free but she’s the most independent, fussy madam atm and I just know it’d have been absolute murder getting her to sit on my lap for 5+ hours so I bought her a child ticket along with mine and DN’s so she’d have her own seat.

I’m taking the boys down to stay at my mum’s so we had a fair bit of luggage, and the buggy but if booked near a luggage rack for ease. I didn’t get a table seat like I usually request, instead two seats of seats one directly behind the other. This is fine bc I’m able to see the boys and they’re generally good kids anyway and they had plenty to occupy themselves with.

So we get on and it’s already busy but we’re all settled, all three kids currently watching screens of some sort (it keeps them the quietest on the train) and I’m indulging myself catching up on Killing Eve. Anout half way through the journey it’s really really busy, everyone’s in reserves seats and there’s a couple of people standing in the end bits and I assume it’s the same on the rest of the train.

Anyway I see two ladies get on, one is visibly older and has a stick. They walk down the whole length of the carriage and no one is (rightly I guess if they’ve booked them) offering a seat for this lady. My DD is actually being remarkably well behaved at this and I decided we could do the rest of the journey with her sat on my lap. I moved up to the window and got their attention and offered the aisle seat for the lady to sit down.

This gets met with a bit of a grunt, not even a thank you and I’m a bit but I’m not a fan of drama so I just ignore the rudeness of this and the lady sits down. The other woman just stands in the aisle next to our seats.

When it becomes apparent that the kids in front are “mine” they’ve been turning round periodically to chat to me, the old woman leans over to me and asks if I can move and share the seats with the boys so her daughter could sit down as well.

I honestly was speechless for a moment for the CF of it all and wondered if I had heard correctly. I apologised and was very polite and explained that no, I had already given up one seat for her and I didn’t want to spend the next two hours squeezed next to two kids with a toddler on my lap!

Woman’s daughter pointed at my DD and piped up with “she travels for free anyway” to which I swiftly told her that I had in fact purchased tickets for all four seats and made the reservations as I knew I’d need them and maybe they would learn to book reservations in the future (I was being a bit sarcastic at this point but honestly I was so taken aback with how cheeky it was).

She said “we couldn’t reserve with these tickets” and I replied “that’s not really my problem”.

Anyway I did not move and for the rest of the journey they both shot daggers at me and my DD every time she laughed or made any kind of normal toddler noise. I’d have kicked the woman back out of the other seat but my conscience wouldn’t allow me to because she’d have had to stand for two and a half hours but really?? I’ve never ever come across this type of thing before at all.

AIBU or should they have just been grateful that I even gave up a booked seat that I had paid for in the first place without expecting even more from me???

@joyfullittlehippo but would you ask someone else's to give up another seat when they've already given you a kindness?

Robyns sorry, but you did suggest that prebooked trumps elderly in your OP.

Anyway I see two ladies get on, one is visibly older and has a stick. They walk down the whole length of the carriage and no one is (rightly I guess if they’ve booked them)

You should've told the old bag to get up and reclaim your seat.
However, you did the right thing.
She's old and you don't want her discomfort on your conscience.

Cheeserton I said “rightly I guess” because actually I hadn’t given much thought to the morals of this particular situation as I’d never come across it before. On this particular lines the guards are usually quite good at finding someone a seat on a full train if they needed it. Now I’ve mulled it over I feel like I agree with you, prebooked doesn’t trump elderly. My first thought when she got nearer to me was to offer my seat without debate, even though I’d booked it. The lady clearly needed it more than my tiny toddler. My nan is always very thankful when someone offers her a seat, but I remember being much younger and both me and her standing up to offer seats to those in need and it’s something I do without thinking when I’m on my own, and if I’m able when I’ve got the kids with me. It just really left a bad taste in my mouth that they were both so rude.

there are priority seats but those were all taken (I presume with people with reservation)

Every train I've ever been on has the priority seems unreserved. They should have asked to use those (or at least the elderly woman should have, it sounds the daughter is just cheeky!)

*priority seats

The trains always have priority seats next to the disabled bay, of which there will be at least 2 disabled bays on your train & a lot more priority seats. There was no need at all for them to ask you, they should have asked people sitting in the disabled area priority seats to move.

Unfortunately I think they were CFs & saw your kindness as weakness, good for you for holding your ground. I'm also pretty sure it's complete bollocks that they couldn't book seats with their chosen tickets. IME, the only seats not bookable are the actual disabled seats

If anyone has a seating conundrum ( like the CF who refused to move from my pre-booked seat despite me showing him my seat reservation and everyone else averting their eyes!)
Just get hold of or ask for ticket or revenue inspector. Turned out CF was travelling without a ticket!

Pretty sure you can reserve seats on any type of ticket even open return. That’s why there are often so many reserved but unused seats on some tra8ns

To be honest I would not have given up my reserved seats, they could have gone elsewhere on the train but if you have a disability you should pre book, trains are expensive and should not allow standing on long distance ones in my opinion

You were perfectly justified.

But what I want to know is who are the 1% who vote differently on practically every thread with the choice buttons? Every thread there is 1% in opposition to the rest. Strange.

YWBVVVVU to even give up one seat. Cheeky fuckers of the highest order.

This does my absolute box in. Why on earth didn’t they book seats, especially when someone is so disabled?

If they had to travel last minute they should have spoken to the guard who would have had to find them somewhere to sit.

I cannot understand why people get on long distance trains without booking a seat.

There are lots of reasons why this might happen.

Have you never had a sudden family emergency which requires you to travel long-distance - e.g. elderly parent rushed to hospital? When that happens, you just have to bolt to the station, buy a ticket and jump onto the next available train.

What about work (so called) emergencies - you can be asked to travel at short notice for something your employer deems as urgent. Unless you have a disability/health condition, your employer isn't going to let you off because you haven't booked a seat.

What about if you have booked seats, but something unexpected happens that means you have to get a different train?

What about when the railway system cancels your connecting train on the day, or it's running late, so you can't join the train on which you have a booked seat?

Had it recently when previous train was cancelled due to trespassers on the line (every train out of Euston was cancelled or delayed for over 2 hours while situation was dealt with) ours was the first train up to the midlands and beyond that went out, albeit considerably delayed, and there were announcements going out on the train that seat reservations for the XX time train were the ones valid as that was the service we were on and passengers booked on other services were asked to respect that.

A couple were sat in my reserved seats and refused to move, even when the announcement was pointed out to them along with that I am pregnant hence booking a seat. Ticket inspector/train manager came along and offered to find another seat yet they still refused so he asked if I was willing to sit elsewhere if he found me a seat and I was - ended up being bumped into first class along with all the benefits that go with it!!

YANBU to refuse to give up the second seat. That would have been a terrible squash for you and your children, and there's no reason to believe the second woman desperately needed it.

YWBU to seriously regret having given up the first seat to a disabled person who clearly needed it more than you did, regardless of how ungrateful she turned out to be. It's just one of those things you have to put up with.

This does my absolute box in. Why on earth didn’t they book seats, especially when someone is so disabled

Trooper I can probably answer that question, but it still doesn't make these people any less CFs

My DD & I are also considered to be walking disabled (EDS+) I never book seats for us to travel, because having done it a few times with 4 train changes to make it tends to be stressful as hell. Invariably there will be hold ups on at least one of the trains, meaning you will miss a connection & if travelling with the cheapest booked seat tickets, that means you can stand to lose your money or have problems getting on the last train, as your ticket isn't valid for it. Part of our medical condition is nausea/dizziness too, so we often need to take longer breaks between trains, especially DD as her POTs means that she still suffers badly with travel sickness, even though rarely sick these days, to look at her you would never know though.

As a result, we no longer ever book train seats as we've realised that it's way more of a pain & that's what the priority seats/coaches are for. Those are the seats where you ARE required to give up a seat for someone who needs it, though I've had problems a few times asking for that too as people look at DD & see a healthy teen & presume I'm just a CF wanting seats for both of us. The train guards, contactable via the buffet car will soon shift people out of these seats if you need them though, those seats can't be booked but they are priority seats for people who need them.

YWBU to seriously regret having given up the first seat to a disabled person who clearly needed it more than you did, regardless of how ungrateful she turned out to be. It's just one of those things you have to put up with.

Disagree with this. Being disabled doesn't give us any right to be rude to someone giving us something that THEY paid for and we haven't.
After the tutting and scowls at the toddler I would have suggested to the lady that as she was obviously dissatisfied with the seating arrangements then perhaps she should fuck off to find another person's seat instead.

I don't know if it applies to all companies, but my husband can, I believe, book a seat on his train up to 10 minutes before it's due - if he remembers once he knows when he is leaving work. He's got a season ticket. I think all ticket types including on the day can have reserved seats nowadays unless they are very last minute, or the train is already full.

Incidentally, where I grew up, the conditions of carriage made it clear that child/youth tickets did not entitle the holder to a seat if there were adults standing (this was on suburban buses and trains, not long-distance). I do get surprised when people try to suggest that small children need seats over adults on short journeys.

Robyns yes seats bookable at time of purchase, just ask the ticket office staff and tell them which train you want to travel on. Some companies have moved to ‘on the day’ advance tickets but not all these companies have reservable seats (Northern Rail for example) so you are given a coupon with a reservation but this is known as a ‘counted place’ and does not entitle you to a seat. Generally, it’s the longer-distance operators that have reservable seats.

Reminds me of the time a friend and I got on the tube at Paddington, an elderly couple got on at the next stop and we immediately got up...but not fast enough judging by the looks we got 😂.

Urgh, train travel has become awful because the rise in demand hadn't been met with more trains so where as getting a seat used to be the norm now it really isn't. Old people are probably still anchored on being able to get a seat as you used to be able to so don't realise the need to book.

Think train travel should become more like plane travel where the first x number of people get a reserved seat and after that it should be made clear it is standing ticket only (with the corresponding reduction in cost). Open tickets should be sold as standing tickets so everyone knows where they are.

Then anyone who is old / disabled / pregnant needs to then appeal to the guard to be seated in a few reserved seats for this purpose, which then takes it out of the hands of the passengers who rightfully don't feel particularly inclined to give up their reserved seats for someone who hasn't done so themselves.

Giveme Trust me, as a regular disabled train user, with a DD with disabilities too, that really would not work as it adds a whole new layer of stress for a disabled traveller. Guards can be rare as hens teeth for starters, as I ca testify too having been left trapped on a train with DD in a wheelchair & nobody turning up with a ramp as arranged. I actually had to ring DH to sort us out as there was none around for me or other passengers to ask.

Besides, those seats already exist & are not bookable for the precise reason of keeping them available for travellers who need them, currently there is no need to find a guard unless able bodied people are sat in them & refuse to move when asked