To think that Home Educated children should be inspected every year?

[jennymanara]

I think home education can work. I know a fair number of parents who are home educating from some who teach their kids to those who are unschoolers.
But I also think there are parents who home educate who are not up to the job and claim to be unschooling, but are in fact just educationally neglecting their children.
There should be an annual inspection of all kids being home schooled. This should check that children are actually getting some form of education, and not just left for example to play minesweeper all day, as one single mother I knew did with her teenage son.

blunt but why check these kids specifically? the failure and the abuse rate is higher in the school educated population....if there is money to be spunked up the wall on this, shouldn't it be spent where the bigger problem is?

Without being patronising, I'm wondering if the people who are pro-reg are actuallyunderstanding the argument against it? I don't expect anyone t o agree if they don't.

Also wondering if people are pro-reg because they've hea rd "safeguarding/abuse" and don't want t o appear as a cunt by discrediting or challenging the register.

ANOTHER observation on the thread as a whole, is that no t one valid argument ut across by a HE has been countered. Most have actually been ignored.

the conclusion I draw is that 1. Skills of debate are clearly not even ly distributed
Or

1. There isn't much of a debate, ie, its one sided. In favour of no-register.

I am of course extremely biased, and silly comments made by people with zero first hand experience of HE are immediately devalued. To me.

@Basecamp65

thank you for mentioning that parent's are responsible for education even if
a kid ks in school. I think that's often overlooked!
Soo if your kiddo fails her gcse due to shit teaching at your local comp, it's your fault mom and dad

Oh, and hiding behind 'if you're decent/if you care/if you have nothing to hide' really isnt a sound argument.

It's a manipulation tactic.

blunt but why check these kids specifically? the failure and the abuse rate is higher in the school educated population

It's not them specifically, other kids are checked in school. So it's checking all kids, and not leaving some unchecked.

It doesn't matter if it's higher in schools. Without a shadow of a doubt some kids are being failed by home Ed. Some of those kids are not known to the authorities. If it's all going well, and there is nothing to hide, why refuse a check? A check that might catch that one in a hundred kid who is falling through the net.

If I was home educating, I'd welcome it. Not just to check my own progress, but for the simple and indisputable fact that that check on someone else might catch the child who is being desperately failed.

Manipulative? Altruistic? I don't care what you call it. The bottom line is, routine checks will improve the ability to help the child that's being failed. And the children that aren't being failed, well it's just an slight inconvenience at worst for the greater good.

Anyone who says they'd fight it, is stopping that one child being found.

Yep; frankly the amount HE’ers are marginalised by everyone else I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of HE’ers simply refuse to register even if it was made mandatory. Take our chances; it’s not as if we will be treated any better for complying and the rest of society doesn’t care about what we have to say. This will be something imposed on us without answering any of our concerns or even acknowledging them. Let the bigots waste as much money as possible chasing us.

I don't understand your attitude to be honest. Who are the bigots ?

Children have a right to a decent education. And the fact of the matter is just like some schools fail children so do some home educators. There should always be measures in place to capture that. And if it inconveniences thr many, to save the few. Then so be it.

And the children that aren't being failed, well it's just an slight inconvenience at worst for the greater good
The problem is this simply isn’t true. Huge numbers of HE children have asd/anxiety/trauma and the checks aren’t a simple as someone turning up, watching what you are doing and then buggering off. It’s quite time consuming (at least for me) HEing, and anything that takes time takes it away from my child’s education. It takes time to collect evidence of what you are doing, to present it in a way that someone with little or no understanding can access. My child is already behind, damaged by school, struggling. Do you really expect us to give yet more? At a guess I think you’re talking a couple of days prep, and a couple of days for us to get back to normal. Once a year? Twice a year? How is that ok. I’m not abusive, I don’t neglect any of my children’s education, why must I be further disadvantaged?

@Bluntness100

Considering you acknowledge having not taken the time to read the thread would it not be better to do so before asking us to repeat what we have already been over?

An interesting and short link helping to substantiate that some LA’s are hostile to Home Educators in general; attempting deceit and intimidation to try and force children back into schools on principle.

www.lgo.org.uk/information-centre/news/2019/jul/be-clear-about-visits-to-home-schooled-children-says-ombudsman

Heh, and I hope none of you 'pro reg' are vegans; front cover of I says children on a vegan diet will be assessed by doctors. Mandatory assessment.

And yeah, it is manipulation. Desperate move. when ya cant argue with logic and reason, its what the weak bullies use.

Safeguarding of course is very importan t for everyone. Nothing more should be said of it.

I have a duty of care to my children first, their 'safeguarding' comes before anyth ing or anyone to me. My duty as a parent is to protect my children as best I can from harm be it mental, physica l. Subjecting my kids to an investigation (which is what it is), would inflict upon them anxiety, stress, enor mous amounts of fear, worry... All in the comfort and security of their home. lovely. Soo the uncaring bastards who didn't look after my kids in school, will now be entitled to come into my home.its ridiculous, insulting, and unnecessary.

Perhaps I can pose another question.... Would it be reasonable to demand that law abiding citizens permit government personnel to enter their homes where no crime is suspected and no search warrant is obtained? The question of whether there should be inspections is not just a question of the adequacy of home education, it is also about the whittling away of basic human rights.
I home educate my child, and I am a law abiding person ..... are you really saying that just because I choose something different for my child, I should not have the same human rights as everyone else?

When my DS was home educated an education officer visited twice that year. Maybe it varies by county.

Soo if your kiddo fails her gcse due to shit teaching at your local comp, it's your fault mom and dad

Well more or less, yes it is. Schools only account for 15-20% of educational outcomes. The rest is down to family and neighbourhood factors.

Sad, but true.

@havannah Its not about your rights. It is about your child's rights. Your child has a right to a decent education. This is about putting children first, not parents.

It gets pretty tricky pretty quickly when you use the ‘children’s rights’ argument because you have to balance the actual risk. Otherwise you could easily argue for mandatory everything.

Actually, when you think about it, there are some far better cases you could make for a mandatory checking system. Health, diet, excercise, activity monitoring.

Do we want these kinds of mandatory checks?

You haven’t answered my alternative question! In circumstances where there is no suspicion that a child is being abused, and no reasonable suspicion that the education I given is inadequate, do you consider it reasonable that government officials should be permitted to demand entry to the family home?
In my book that is a violation of my human rights and also my child’s human rights - or do you think article 8 of the Human Rights Act 1998 applies only to adults?
My child has a right to have his private family life respected too.

Your child has a right to a decent education. This is about putting children first, not parents.
Which is EXACTLY why I HE. What part of that don’t you understand.

If we were going to be totally blunt, LEGALLY what choice do I have if my dc wasn’t being educated in school?

@Havannah
dont expect a reply lol. Anything jenny doesn't like hearing (and not just jenny, most of them here) will be ignored.

Maybe it's while they gather their thoughts to prepare a reply which uses logic, rationale, facts....

...

...

Naaaaaah, it's because they aint got shit to say! A nd what they do have to say is at best, word salad.

Maybe we should all just have mandatory cctv fitted into every roo m of our homes, just in case.
An d by "all", I mean all.
I'm sure the tax payers don't mind picking up the bill for that. Or, you could use the money that HE saves the government every year!
Any decent person wouldn't mind.

Bunch of sheeple who are not here to debate. But just nod along unthinkingly with educational orthodoxy. Few of them even attempt to engage with our points.

Sad but true, Minky3

If you or anyone else here has concerns about the education a child is receiving at home you can report it to the local education authority who will investigate, monitor and if necessary, issue a school attendance order (SAO) forcing them to attend a state school setting of the authorities choice.
If you have concerns about the welfare and safety of a child educated at home you can and (I cannot stress this enough) SHOULD report your concerns to child services who will investigate and monitor and if necessary issue a care order, removing children and placing them in the care system away from their parents/care givers.
If you have concerns of immediate risk or harm to a child educated at home. Please dial 999 for the police and report your concerns where they will attend and detain or escalate additional concerns to the relevant authorities.

"Safeguarding is everyone's concern".

*If LAs actually wanted to safeguard HE children and make sure they got a good education, there is a very simple way they could do it:

1. Build positive relationships with local HEdders (who will know other HE families far better than the LA ever will), and get a reputation for being genuinely pro-HE and committed to fairness. That would mean local HE families with concerns about someone in the community would feel they could ask the LA to investigate and feel comfortable that the outcome would be fair - at the moment too many LAs see their role as getting HE children back into school whether that's best for the children or not. It would also mean families worried about their own provision could get guidance and help, rather than judgement and pressure to put the children back into school.

2. Stop conflating HE with safeguarding. The number of malicious and false reports to SS from LAs, previous schools, neighbours, etc, based solely on the fact a family HEs is scary. It sets up an Us vs Them atmosphere. LAs have been known to send police to do a "welfare check" for no other reason than the family doesn't wish to have a LA inspection (that they legally do not have to have), which is threatening, and a complete waste of police time - that is not how welfare checks are supposed to be used.

3. Offer help - vouchers for local tutors, discounts for LA stuff like leisure centres, exam centres offered at cost, lists of local schools who will allow external candidates to sit exams.

But LAs won't do that. Many of them are totally idealogically opposed to HE, and they have a financial incentive to get children back into school - central government funds school children, LAs have to fund oversight of HE children. Monitoring won't work. It'd cost a bomb, compliance levels would be low, and what good would an hour or two with a child each year, or even every 6 months, do? LAs will just use any new powers to get more children back into schools - the schools that failed them, in many cases. If they actually wanted to improve things for HE kids, they could try any of the ideas above instead*
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Excellent post silkie

.

minky3 also spot on.

I have a DD with complex SEN, who has always been in special provision. I have seen some of her friends, returned to mainstream, who could not cope and school refused - and were then out of school for a year or more. I met others, who could not cope in mainstream and either had a breakdown or attempted suicide - like an 8 year, who started walking out in front of buses.

Special Needs Jungle reports:

www.specialneedsjungle.com/social-care-tactics-send-problem-parents/

that some LAs take child protection proceedings against parents of children with SEN either because they don't recognise or understand the child's difficulties; or some LA officers don't like parents who disagree with them and stand up for their child.

IMO, inspections of HE would just become another stick for some LAs to beat parents of children with complex SEN, who can't cope in mainstream and end up school refusing. Who apart from educational psychologists, speech therapists and specialist teachers would have the expertise to assess what progress these children were making at home, given their underlying SEN? Its very difficult to get an educational psychologist to assess a child in school for an EHC plan; there certainly aren't enough to assess HE children out of school due to SEN every year.

Furthermore, as this article in Community Care showed in 2015 (and nothing is likely to have got any better since then):

www.communitycare.co.uk/2015/09/02/social-workers-pressured-downgrade-child-protection-cases-referrals-surge/

Social workers were pressured to downgrade children on protection plans to child in need - and leave children suffering neglect where they were, due to lack of resources to put them into care.

I've known two professionals in different professions, who said they made referral after referral to social services about families and social services did nothing, until the family actually were in crisis (like a baby had suffered brain damage)

The more children, who are inspected, the less resources there are for those actually suffering neglect and abuse!