AIBU to feel that the ‘Labour against Private Schools’ campaign is a scapegoat for a lack of vision for educational reform?

[BusyMum1978]

2500 UK independent schools with 615K children attending which is 7% of the population of children in FT education up to the age of 16. A number of articles published this week have highlighted the campaign supported by Labour MP’s, who are calling for a number of measures impacting Independent Schools including their complete abolishment, and for these schools to become part of the state school system. A real hatred seems to be forming, and it feels to me like an easy smoke screen to put up rather than the Labour Party providing very specific policies to show how state funded education will be reformed.

I completely understand the feeling behind the imminent appointment of our 20th Etonian PM - there is urgent reform required in politics to have equal representation which I wholeheartedly agree with. I also understand the recently published stats showing accelerated social mobility for those attending top independent schools. I am not saying that there aren’t areas for improvement- but is the objective to bring more children up, or to bring the independently educated 7% down to make it ‘fair’?

My children both attend a prep school, and they are the first generation in both mine and my husband’s family to do so. We aren’t rich, neither of us have a degree, we own one property. We have -and continue to- work hard and made a choice to invest in our children’s education. We know we are privileged to be able to do so. To hear that MP’s want to wage a ‘class war’ with a family like mine feels inflammatory and yet more decisiveness in an already fractured country.

My children started their education in a state primary school but quite honestly it wasn’t good enough, and our heads were turned by what the private sector had to offer.

It equally broke my heart and inspired me to read The Times article on The Willow in Broadwater Farm school. Schools like this desperately need funding and further support, as do a range of children’s services which were cut during austerity. However will abolishing independent schools help a school like this? Parents who have money will still gravitate to the best areas / schools, and get tutors etc. There are a large number of selective state secondary schools that require heavy tutoring to access.

We need to nurture brilliant young minds in this country, to plug the UK skills gap, and compete in a global market. The independent sector has a valuable role to play.

Progress and globalisation is happening at such a rate that it’s becoming a bit uncomfortable. Many jobs our children will do haven’t even been invented yet.

The independent schools could work more closely with the state sector, but it concerns me that this campaign is chasing an ideal, and if successful would just shift the problem elsewhere.

One might argue private school parents are subsidising the state sector by paying tax towards state education they don't use.

I've suggested that phiney but it was ignored.

You do use it.
My nurse had a state education.
My friend who teaches at sn rxclusive preo school had a state education
The egineer i know who keeps drinking water flowing in the south east had a state education.

On the fundraising point. To raise significant amounts of cash you need to retain a fundraiser, usually. Most state schools would not raise much because they wouldn't be in a position to hire staff to make the phonecalls, run the alumnae events etc. It's taken universities decades to professionalise in this way and they still raise a tint fraction of the US ones. Plus the well heeled may understandably feel nervous of donations to something run by the government. You'd get your name abruptly removed from the building as soon as another party was in power!

Thats a very good point grasspigeon!

Yes but it's still saving actual money to a school's actual budget in the current financial year.

And we all benefit from the skills of those educated in the independent sector too.

My point is more investment in education is better than less because the skills enrich society even if just through tax.

Meh you can’t buy brains !

I am state educated and taught for 6 years in the state sector. I would agree that if a state school trains a teacher they should be contractually required to work in the state sector for X number of years or pay the money back. Not sure you could enforce it though.

This is one of those London re the rest discussions. You couldn't shut London's private education sector without massive disruption. Way more than 7% are privately educated here especially at sixth form. All the politicians are here. This proposal is never going to happen.

But the average middle class family would spend the money buying in tuition not on a school they have been forced to send their dc to.

I think like a lot of Labour thoughts and eventually policies they think people will do exactly what they think they will do and it comes to them as a huge surprise that people take alternative routes.

As for going abroad, a quick google and in France schools are similar to what I was paying and in Spain it was generally a lower cost.

All these middle class parents working their little socks off to send their little darlings to a private school so that they can get the “best” education to work their socks off to send their little darlings to a private school . Talk about a rat race !

so that they can get the “best” education

Define “best”? We only ever wanted the best for our daughter in terms of making her primary years happy.

Jacques - apparently it’s one you have to pay for. Perhaps those who do can enlighten us ?

"One might argue private school parents are subsidising the state sector by paying tax towards state education they don't use."

Except that taxation isn't a pay in get out system, we all pay for things we don't use.

"As for going abroad, a quick google and in France schools are similar to what I was paying and in Spain it was generally a lower cost."

What for boarding school? Rubbish.

Mind you, you aren't really good at using the data you do find so..

Perhaps those who do can enlighten us?

Didn’t get any of our 5 preferences on our school application, mainly I expect because 2 are selective on faith - a far greater problem to the state system IMO.

Better for us was not travelling an hour round trip to get DD to school for a start. We preferred her to be at a local school with friends in the local area. The only way to obtain this was by paying.

"Didn’t get any of our 5 preferences on our school application, mainly I expect because 2 are selective on faith"

So you put down preferences that are selective on faith, and you aren't practicing it?

So you put down preferences that are selective on faith, and you aren't practicing it?

We put down the closest 5 to where we live. Faith schools were 4 & 5 on the list. When we asked advice from the LEA they advised we fill the options, otherwise we could get “anywhere”.

Ironic really.

There are very few people like you though, something like 96% of pupils get one of their top 3 choices in London.

There are very few people like you though, something like 96% of pupils get one of their top 3 choices in London

And in our LEA that year, 37% didn’t get one of their top 3 choices....still, as long as it works in London?

On the fundraising point. To raise significant amounts of cash you need to retain a fundraiser, usually. Most state schools would not raise much because they wouldn't be in a position to hire staff to make the phonecalls, run the alumnae events etc.

In our son's state school, they're incredibly successful with alumni, fund raising events, etc. But it's all run by the "friends" (PTA) with no paid staff at all.

Instead of farting about with cake stalls raising a few quid a pop for a lot of background work, they are set up more professionally. They have an on site school shop selling second hand uniform, new "branded" goods such as pens, umbrellas, etc., various text and study books etc. They open for an hour mid afternoon (for parents picking up children) and a couple of hours Saturday morning. They do various annual social events, such as a formal dinner evening which raises thousands, auctions of promises, annual fun-run, etc. All that's done by "normal" mums and dads. The accounts show tens of thousands of pounds are raised each year and used to buy various things for the school, such as sports equipment, tech equipment, stage lighting/sound, etc. It's through the PTA that former pupils are kept engaged via alumni events, invitations to annual speech day/prizegiving, sports days, etc., so ex-pupils also contribute to fund raising, and are then tapped into for coming in to give talks in assemblies etc about their careers etc.

My own state school did absolutely nothing like that. I can't remember any parental involvement in anything and once I left, I never received anything from them, not even a simple enquiry as to what I'd ended up doing for further education or work.

So it can be done even without professional fund raisers. But the school themselves, particularly the leadership, has to take a lead to start it and then nurture it. Most schools will have all kinds of parents able to help, with all kinds of skills and resources - they just need to be nurtured and organised. Once you've started the ball rolling, it can take on a life of it's own and self perpetuate as new pupils and parents join the school to replace those who leave. The children of one of our leading PTA committee members left school over a decade ago, but she's still here beavering away!

"And in our LEA that year, 37% didn’t get one of their top 3 choices."

That's extremely rare.

I put down London because its London boroughs that have the highest rate of pupils not getting their first choice, in many parts of the country its over 90%.

I expect because 2 are selective on faith - a far greater problem to the state system IMO.

Indeed, I wonder why Labour aren't campaigning against faith schools. I, too, think they cause far more harm to the schools/pupils around them, not least because they're far more prolific.

in many parts of the country its over 90%

Absolutely. Doesn’t help those in the other areas though.

Before any consideration is given to abolishing the private system, the state system has to be fit for purpose.

I didn't know there was such a campaign and much as I support state schooling and am appalled at the lack of funding the schools experience, I would not take away anyone's choice. If people live in an area with poor schools and can afford to pay for private education for their children, they should be free to do so. If all schools had high standards, everyone would choose state but we're a long way off that.

I would definitely back the scrapping of faith schools.