AIBU to feel that the ‘Labour against Private Schools’ campaign is a scapegoat for a lack of vision for educational reform?

[BusyMum1978]

2500 UK independent schools with 615K children attending which is 7% of the population of children in FT education up to the age of 16. A number of articles published this week have highlighted the campaign supported by Labour MP’s, who are calling for a number of measures impacting Independent Schools including their complete abolishment, and for these schools to become part of the state school system. A real hatred seems to be forming, and it feels to me like an easy smoke screen to put up rather than the Labour Party providing very specific policies to show how state funded education will be reformed.

I completely understand the feeling behind the imminent appointment of our 20th Etonian PM - there is urgent reform required in politics to have equal representation which I wholeheartedly agree with. I also understand the recently published stats showing accelerated social mobility for those attending top independent schools. I am not saying that there aren’t areas for improvement- but is the objective to bring more children up, or to bring the independently educated 7% down to make it ‘fair’?

My children both attend a prep school, and they are the first generation in both mine and my husband’s family to do so. We aren’t rich, neither of us have a degree, we own one property. We have -and continue to- work hard and made a choice to invest in our children’s education. We know we are privileged to be able to do so. To hear that MP’s want to wage a ‘class war’ with a family like mine feels inflammatory and yet more decisiveness in an already fractured country.

My children started their education in a state primary school but quite honestly it wasn’t good enough, and our heads were turned by what the private sector had to offer.

It equally broke my heart and inspired me to read The Times article on The Willow in Broadwater Farm school. Schools like this desperately need funding and further support, as do a range of children’s services which were cut during austerity. However will abolishing independent schools help a school like this? Parents who have money will still gravitate to the best areas / schools, and get tutors etc. There are a large number of selective state secondary schools that require heavy tutoring to access.

We need to nurture brilliant young minds in this country, to plug the UK skills gap, and compete in a global market. The independent sector has a valuable role to play.

Progress and globalisation is happening at such a rate that it’s becoming a bit uncomfortable. Many jobs our children will do haven’t even been invented yet.

The independent schools could work more closely with the state sector, but it concerns me that this campaign is chasing an ideal, and if successful would just shift the problem elsewhere.

I was interested in this so crunched some numbers.

Private secondaries near me all seem to be 11-12k. DH and I have 2 kids and our household income puts us above 52% of the population according to the IFS calculator. No way could we afford private school fees now. However, if we only had one, I think we might juuuuust be able to do it and be those fabled parents who give up everything for the duration and walk around with holes in shoes for 7 years. And according to the calculator with 1 kid and the same income, we would be on the 63rd percentile. You would have to be taking a pretty tight definition of average not to accept 63rd percentile. I've no idea how typical that is but I thought the figures were interesting.

Not that it makes much difference anyway, since we have 2 and I don't think the stork will take returns. If we really wanted our kids out of the state system I expect we'd have to homeschool.

No one said they were, just that the PP who claimed lots of average income familirs send their children to private school was incorrect.

must also be noted that this is not labour party policy.

But what about the Labour MPs (plus councillors, party members, and voters) who send their own kids to private school? Hypocritical bastards.

jasjas1973

Maybe for some pupils parents do have little interest in helping children but I don't see how them attending separate classes to their classmates will be negated by a parent who can't read.

I don't see how other children would be held back.

ATM those with any sort of learning difficulties which could just be they are a bit young for their age are being tossed aside in the pursuit of sticking to the national curriculum

According to Google there are 22% of children leaving primary school unable to read or write , some reports say 50% are not attaining the standard to pass the test to say they are functionally literate so to speak.

Even at the lesser percentage that is at least 6 in every class being ignored because they haven't been able to learn to read and write.

Starting school with no skills shouldn't impact their learning. If a reception teacher isn't starting from scratch and expecting children to be able to read and write from day 1 then I think maybe they are in the wrong job. Or does now the curriculum state in September when some children were only 3 years old a few weeks before these children are expected to perform the same as other flow classmates who are nearly 25% older than them

what about Tory party MPs and counsellors who vote for lower taxes and education spending cuts, to cut sure start and other programs whilst givibg tax breaks to the private schools they use ?

oliver, your claims are incorrect.fullfact.org/education/literacy-year-6/

@olibersmumsarmy Ds is in y8 and was taken out during subjects like art to do extra classes. He did spelling, handwriting and literacy every week. (3 sessions) The school ran extra numeracy too but Ds is good at it so didn't need the help.

Clearly the problem in state schools is a lack of consistency but it's far harder for politicians to get this right than go for the easy option of targeting parents who pay for education.

Bringing back the Assisted Places scheme would probably win more votes and cost less money than getting rid of private schools. Considering how many MPs went to or use private schools, you'd think that they knew that not all private schools are the same and creating a private school vs state school war is no better than the Conservative policy of stoking up I'll-feeling towards the poor.

sionnachbeag

Firstly these figures are not really accurate data taking in all 10-11 year olds as a lot of those that wouldn’t pass a literacy test wouldn’t have made it to year 6 so the figures would be a lot higher.

Ds at this age wouldn’t have figured in this type of data as he was HE because of his failure to progress in school.

By 11 he could read individual words if he concentrated and sounded them out. Couldn’t make out what the sentence said because by the time he got to the end of the sentence he had forgotten what words he had read at the beginning of the line.

I think there is a variation of what someone would consider to be literate or not.

I don’t think Ds was functionally literate as I believe the 22% who failed the test would not be literate either.

I know Ds was one of 4 from his class alone who it was made so unbearable at school that we were forced to remove our children, not sure about the other class in his year.

Schools cannot cope atm with pupils who are outside the norm who need more help learning or at the other end of the scale are very very bright. What makes Labour think that flooding the state schools with thousands of pupils from the independent sector is going to somehow solve the problems we have in education.

Seems like a distraction to satisfy those who are led by jealousy rather than the ability to see the full picture

pikapikachu

My point would be why it took them to year 8 to decide your Ds needed help.

Why wasn’t this sorted out at primary school?

I presume he suddenly

www.stchris.co.uk/about-us/
Would the OP get rid of this school or is it just Eton?

Apologies OP I've just read your OP again.

Derxa I think there are quite a few people who wouldn’t care how many small schools shut or how overwhelmed the state system would be if it meant places like Eton and Harrow were closed down and the super rich thwarted.
However what they don’t realise is that the super rich would make other arrangements and their children would still have an elite education.

oliver your claims are bunkum 22 percent didn't "fail" or are unable to read and write. Go read the link.

"i believe the 22 % who failed the test would not be lieterate either" what you believe doesn't matter. That's not what the stats you are claiming show.

@Oliversmumsarmy

those children who have zero skills, are not limited to not being able to read or write, according to my friend who is a teacher in Plymouth, this means they are not toilet trained, do not understand basic speech, have behavioral issues, such as not understanding it is wrong to hurt other children.

These kids take up a huge amount of resource that just isn't there.

Essentially, there just isn't enough resource dedicated to education or early intervention in all but the most seriously damaged children.

This thread has moved on but it is an absolute fact that lots of 2 average income parents are sending their kids to private schools. Many know to do without holidays, expensive clothes, etc. Many of the private schools have a large ethnic minority population and who know the meaning of sacrifice. So yes, I know loads of families that send their kids to private schools who have household income of around £50k. Some will stop at primary, making sure their kids do well at 11 plus to get into a good grammar school. Some will skip primary, save and pay for secondary to get into good universities.

what about Tory party MPs and counsellors who vote for lower taxes and education spending cuts, to cut sure start and other programs whilst givibg tax breaks to the private schools they use ?

I think you're comparing tax-cutting Tories to Labour politicians who heap scorn upon private schools, and then use them?

Unless we're to exempt our politicians from actually paying tax, they will obviously enjoy the benefit of their own tax cuts. What else do you suggest?

There's no corollary to Labour politicians who want us to send our children to state schools because it's for the good of all, but defect for their own children because they're special.

However what they don’t realise is that the super rich would make other arrangements and their children would still have an elite education.
I agree

Life Please stop digging!

Average households do not have a net income of 50k and average income families (which is 28k disposable ONS) do not send their kids to private school without help from family etc.

It would take their entire income for 2 children in private education.

This thread has moved on but it is an absolute fact that lots of 2 average income parents are sending their kids to private schools. Many know to do without holidays, expensive clothes, etc. Many of the private schools have a large ethnic minority population and who know the meaning of sacrifice. So yes, I know loads of families that send their kids to private schools who have household income of around £50k. Some will stop at primary, making sure their kids do well at 11 plus to get into a good grammar school. Some will skip primary, save and pay for secondary to get into good universities.

Well, yes.

I was explaining to my son, who is going to Eton in the autumn (shoot me now) that 50% of the children there are on bursaries and he'd need to be more sensitive about money than he had been at his current prep.

Well, I was corrected. He told me that he has quite a few friends at his current prep who don't have a lot of money, who worry about money, and that he would never be so stupid as to assume that anyone has money because they go to prep school.

Here is Harold Wilson's son who went to independent school.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Wilson_(mathematician)

There's no corollary to Labour politicians who want us to send our children to state schools because it's for the good of all, but defect for their own children because they're special

IF Labour want to ban private education, then there will be no private schools for them to send their kids too!

Personally, the Cons policy of cutting educational spending, whilst enjoying private education for themselves is far more damaging/hypocritical....
Abbott putting her kid in a private school wont affect me but cuts to educational spending affects the whole of society.

It isnt an absolute fact. Average income im the UK is 28k.

which after tax gives the household about 45k.

You can convince yourself all you like. You aren't rightm

More than 50 percent of bursaries are given to children whose parents pay more than half the fees. On average only 7 percent of pupils are on any kind of support, and only 1 percent get a full ride.