AIBU to feel that the ‘Labour against Private Schools’ campaign is a scapegoat for a lack of vision for educational reform?

[BusyMum1978]

2500 UK independent schools with 615K children attending which is 7% of the population of children in FT education up to the age of 16. A number of articles published this week have highlighted the campaign supported by Labour MP’s, who are calling for a number of measures impacting Independent Schools including their complete abolishment, and for these schools to become part of the state school system. A real hatred seems to be forming, and it feels to me like an easy smoke screen to put up rather than the Labour Party providing very specific policies to show how state funded education will be reformed.

I completely understand the feeling behind the imminent appointment of our 20th Etonian PM - there is urgent reform required in politics to have equal representation which I wholeheartedly agree with. I also understand the recently published stats showing accelerated social mobility for those attending top independent schools. I am not saying that there aren’t areas for improvement- but is the objective to bring more children up, or to bring the independently educated 7% down to make it ‘fair’?

My children both attend a prep school, and they are the first generation in both mine and my husband’s family to do so. We aren’t rich, neither of us have a degree, we own one property. We have -and continue to- work hard and made a choice to invest in our children’s education. We know we are privileged to be able to do so. To hear that MP’s want to wage a ‘class war’ with a family like mine feels inflammatory and yet more decisiveness in an already fractured country.

My children started their education in a state primary school but quite honestly it wasn’t good enough, and our heads were turned by what the private sector had to offer.

It equally broke my heart and inspired me to read The Times article on The Willow in Broadwater Farm school. Schools like this desperately need funding and further support, as do a range of children’s services which were cut during austerity. However will abolishing independent schools help a school like this? Parents who have money will still gravitate to the best areas / schools, and get tutors etc. There are a large number of selective state secondary schools that require heavy tutoring to access.

We need to nurture brilliant young minds in this country, to plug the UK skills gap, and compete in a global market. The independent sector has a valuable role to play.

Progress and globalisation is happening at such a rate that it’s becoming a bit uncomfortable. Many jobs our children will do haven’t even been invented yet.

The independent schools could work more closely with the state sector, but it concerns me that this campaign is chasing an ideal, and if successful would just shift the problem elsewhere.

" most of the parents sending their kids to private schools are just ordinary middle class folk nor earning 230k"

No they aren't, you have already shown yourself not to understand averages.

"According to a labour pill amongst its members, £50k is considered rich."

So you are conflating Corbyn with Labour supporters who filled in a poll?

Righhht.

Got a link?

I can show you data that puts someone on 50K in the top 12 percent of earners.

To win votes, he knows, like with many other things, he / they need to tread carefully. £80k has been the compromise but may no mistake, the membership and the leaders think £50k is rich.

Which is exactly why all this "tax the rich" rhetoric is just playing to the audience. They know they can't actually do it. Just look at the doctor/GP situation where they're refusing to do extra shifts and actually reducing working hours to avoid penal taxes imposed on them "because they're rich"! I know maths isn't the Labour cabinet's strong point, but someone needs to do the sums. There are so few people who are "rich" and so many who aren't, increasing their taxes is a drop in the ocean and changes diddly squat and it can be counter productive as we are seeing with doctors and GPs and their unforeseen consequences. Take a million pounds from a few hundred "rich" people and all you can do is spread it around as a few pounds to the poorest few million people - it makes no difference in the big scheme.

You may move in wealthy circles where boarding is the norm. I don't and the figures near me out. The vast majority of private schools are not boarding schools and most of the parents sending their kids to private schools are just ordinary middle class folk nor earning 230k

Lifeandjoy All the major schools around here offer boarding, Truro School, Kelly, Plymouth College, Shebbear.
All day fees are around 15k per year per child, way outside the reach of 2 parents with 2 children earning avg wage, especially considering travel and childcare costs as both parents are working... do they ever see their kids?

I think the posters here trying to argue that you can be an 'average' wage earner and educate kids at a good private school are barking! No decent independent is less than about 6k a term at secondary. That's around 1500 a month.

Mumsnet seems to be full of either people who live paycheck to paycheck and have never been abroad, or glamorous SAHMs whose husbands earn 6 figures and kids go to St Pauls...

Well i am neither

I think the posters here trying to argue that you can be an 'average' wage earner and educate kids at a good private school are barking! No decent independent is less than about 6k a term at secondary. That's around 1500 a month

With reference to secondary sure, with reference to primary you don’t need to be wealthy. You need to earn enough but you don’t have to be rolling in it.

Lots of Mumsnetters are from London. Average earnings in London are 40k/year. With two parents a bit above that (but still broadly average), they can educate a child privately if they choose.

Primary, sure. I do think thats a bit of a waste of money though

Primary, sure. I do think thats a bit of a waste of money though

No more than secondary....either paying for education is worth it or it isn’t!

Labour are not electable so I really wouldn't worry.

There is no way that they'd get rid of state boarding schools never mind private ones.

Yanbu to think that it's an easy stick to wave around. They should be ensuring that there's enough places for kids who want state places and closing the gap between state schools in the North and South.

The school budget isn't stretching far enough for children currently in the state system so a 7% increase in the student population won't help. The ex private school parents will create housing bubbles near desirable state schools and price out poor parents this widening the gulf between schools at the top and bottom.

There are bigger problems in the state system like faith schools and no government has tackled that unfair advantage that some have so don't take them seriously.

There will be plenty of Labour MS

No more than secondary....either paying for education is worth it or it isn’t!

I don't agree. If you can only afford one or the other then 9,10 and 11 are the years to do it. Pref 7 8 9 10 11. There are lots of good primaries around.

I don't agree. If you can only afford one or the other then 9,10 and 11 are the years to do it. Pref 7 8 9 10 11. There are lots of good primaries around

That’s very naive. There are lots of good primaries around, the fact that a number of people in catchment can’t get into them is a problem.

DD is now in a state secondary, which is one of the top performing schools in the county (including private) with a fraction of the number of pupils.

For us is wasn’t “one or the other” - we could have afforded to school her privately all the way through. That would be doing her a disservice though given she’s in the best school for her.

The problem with state schools now is they don’t do the basics.

Leaving primary everyone should be at a basic level, able to read, spell and do basic maths and times tables.

Secondary is for learning different subjects in more detail.

Now primary has a curriculum. If you can’t read by year 2 then you might get a little help from a TA for 10 minutes every few days otherwise the rest of the time you are in a classroom trying to work out what has been written on the whiteboard.
In ds’s case he was expected to do written homework even though he couldn’t read and if he didn’t do the homework he spent playtime and lunchtime staring at a blank piece of paper.

Like those in his class who also struggled we all had left the school by the beginning of year 4

When I was in primary school there was a class for those that had difficulty reading and writing, all ages attended for the times that their own class were doing maths or writing subjects.

When you had mastered those skills you went back into your class.

As far as I was aware everyone by the time they reached the end of primary had the ability to read and write and do basic maths and had started to join the class.

Now children are leaving primary unable to read in great numbers.

Something is seriously wrong and to suggest getting rid of independent schools is somehow going to fix things is seriously misguided

Labour are not electable so I really wouldn't worry

Lab and Con are pretty much even...for what these things are worth.
britainelects.com/polling/westminster/

But your right, any new Govt is going to be up to their neck in Brexit issues, without worrying about private education.

I think the posters here trying to argue that you can be an 'average' wage earner and educate kids at a good private school are barking! No decent independent is less than about 6k a term at secondary. That's around 1500 a month

North/south split on this one maybe? Eg Newcastle Grammar School senior school is £14k pa. A family with two average wage earners could accommodate this if they have had their children late thirties? There are no young parents at DS school but there are plenty of parents who are teachers, nurses etc. Historically cheaper property costs mean a lot of our friends with children still in education are now mortgage free.

Leaving primary everyone should be at a basic level, able to read, spell and do basic maths and times tables

Hard to do when many parents can't read or write themselves and have zero interest in their kids.
Some children are starting primary with almost no skills whatsoever, this means the teachers spend too much time on these pupils, at the expense of the majority.

I would say the most important thing a primary can do is instil a love of learning in a child.

We need to break the cycle of low attainment and terrible parenting and that means intervention, unfortunately all this has been cut, an awfully short sighted policy.

My brother pays 80k to board his children out of a take home salary of 230k, he is one of the poorer families there.

How does your brother know how much money all the other parents have?

take home salary of 230k, he is one of the poorer families there.

Wow, imagine being so rich that 230k salary seems "poor"!

Again people are focussing on very expensive schools which only the super rich can afford
Dd goes to an excellent Private day school which is non selective but gets GCSE results similar to the closest Grammar. Fees are £15000 per year at most and extras aren’t super expensive either.
Her friends are the children of Doctors, teachers, police officers, business people etc
This is the kind of school that would be affected by VAT going onto school fees not the schools housing the offspring of super rich

15k per year is still way out of range of anyone with average household income.

I don't think this group woupd be effected by VAT really, am extra 1k per term wouldn't be too off putting, maybe a small number of parents would remove children but the majoirty wouldn't.

Yes I agree that £15000 is still quite a lot of money but I was trying to make the point that not everyone with dc at Private school are super rich

Hoppinggreen

Well said.

In addition, any government won't be happy now until they control our lives.
We must all work, our children must have childcare and of course they will start interfering with H.ed soon. Our kids won't be our own soon.
I'm glad mine are all through school, nearly

I detest the Labour Party's policies.
If people are able and willing to spend money they have lawfully earned on private healthcare, education, housing etc etc then that is their prerogative.
Many people who seem to be against it are those who are unable or unwilling to pay.
The whole idealism of many senior members of the Party is a joke, when they chose private education for their own children.
As far as I am concerned, my child's welfare comes first. If we choose to make sacrifices and send him to private school, then that is our concern.
What grinds my gears are state religious schools.