AIBU to feel that the ‘Labour against Private Schools’ campaign is a scapegoat for a lack of vision for educational reform?

[BusyMum1978]

2500 UK independent schools with 615K children attending which is 7% of the population of children in FT education up to the age of 16. A number of articles published this week have highlighted the campaign supported by Labour MP’s, who are calling for a number of measures impacting Independent Schools including their complete abolishment, and for these schools to become part of the state school system. A real hatred seems to be forming, and it feels to me like an easy smoke screen to put up rather than the Labour Party providing very specific policies to show how state funded education will be reformed.

I completely understand the feeling behind the imminent appointment of our 20th Etonian PM - there is urgent reform required in politics to have equal representation which I wholeheartedly agree with. I also understand the recently published stats showing accelerated social mobility for those attending top independent schools. I am not saying that there aren’t areas for improvement- but is the objective to bring more children up, or to bring the independently educated 7% down to make it ‘fair’?

My children both attend a prep school, and they are the first generation in both mine and my husband’s family to do so. We aren’t rich, neither of us have a degree, we own one property. We have -and continue to- work hard and made a choice to invest in our children’s education. We know we are privileged to be able to do so. To hear that MP’s want to wage a ‘class war’ with a family like mine feels inflammatory and yet more decisiveness in an already fractured country.

My children started their education in a state primary school but quite honestly it wasn’t good enough, and our heads were turned by what the private sector had to offer.

It equally broke my heart and inspired me to read The Times article on The Willow in Broadwater Farm school. Schools like this desperately need funding and further support, as do a range of children’s services which were cut during austerity. However will abolishing independent schools help a school like this? Parents who have money will still gravitate to the best areas / schools, and get tutors etc. There are a large number of selective state secondary schools that require heavy tutoring to access.

We need to nurture brilliant young minds in this country, to plug the UK skills gap, and compete in a global market. The independent sector has a valuable role to play.

Progress and globalisation is happening at such a rate that it’s becoming a bit uncomfortable. Many jobs our children will do haven’t even been invented yet.

The independent schools could work more closely with the state sector, but it concerns me that this campaign is chasing an ideal, and if successful would just shift the problem elsewhere.

You can nurture brilliant young minds in the state school system also

Abolishment of public/independent schools would force ALL parents to have an interest in the state school system. Social elites currently have no regard for the state schooling system as they don't have to use it. Such an interest would drive up standards for all participants. YABU.

There’s nothing really wrong with standards in most state schools.

There are more than enough able state school students educated enough and competent enough to fill jobs in media, politics, medicine and law, but independent schools are dominating those professions due to nepotism.

We need to put a cap on numbers going from independent schools into key professions because to continue not to do so is causing instability and disenchantment in society.

YANBU. I hate the beating independent schools with sticks, they are not a drain on state schools. People should be able to choose how they educate their children which includes paying for that education if they have the money or their children get scholarships.

Ds2 goes to an online school, which we pay for, so I guess that's private. He has aspergers and had to leave his state secondary due to relentless bullying. He wouldn't be able to receive an education without it.

I don't have words bad enough for the utter shite that the labour party come out with. I'm not a tory either before anyone criticises.

I'm totally against private education. We need proper investment in state schools, and engagment for all students, not just for the ones with parents who care.

The class/wealth gap in the UK is shocking.

When the Labour Party decide to campaign to abolish all discrimination regarding state funded schooling they may have a point.

How the only primary school I was offered for my children is even allowed to run is beyond me and there was no way I was walking past two excellent schools to get to it.

Private school is a stretch for us, I'm going to have the same dilemma shortly with secondary. The top school in the area I can see from my window, yet I'm guessing we won't get in on faith grounds and they will want us to go to the one a couple of miles away where kids being suspended for carrying knives is common.

If labour creates enough state school places for all children and gives school enough budget to actually run in a decent way (i.e. in buildings with non- leaking roofs, reasonable teacher workload and decent class sizes) , happy to.
in our town aline that would be around 300 per year group.
A lot of kids go private because there are no schools offered in a reasonable distance (3 miles - this is in a big town), or the one school you could actually get in is a leaking catastrophe of a building

We need to put a cap on numbers going from independent schools into key professions because to continue not to do so is causing instability and disenchantment in society. How do you suggest this could be implemented, EndoftheDays? Quotas for privately educated applicants on certain degree courses? In medical schools?

I can’t see them ever abolishing the private system altogether. I’m not sure if they’d legally be able to do it. I can see them removing charitable status but that would just mean the demographics getting richer. The super elites would send their kids abroad and there would still be a system of privilege: it would just mean money flowing out of this country instead of in.

We need to nurture brilliant young minds in this country, to plug the UK skills gap, and compete in a global market. The independent sector has a valuable role to play

Only those of parents with enough money. Which, to be frank, isn’t that many.

The existence of the independent sector continues to skew society massively.

Politicians who support the independent sector have no interest in really improving the state system. Because then what’s the point of paying for education? They like the idea of having that privilege which ultimately excludes a lot of people and children.

Most parents work hard. So what if you can afford private education - in general terms, you aren’t working harder than those that can’t.

The system we have entrenches social divides.

The super elites would send their kids abroad and there would still be a system of privilege: it would just mean money flowing out of this country instead of in

🤷🏻‍♀️

Money flowing in where?

We’ve had increased in the wealth of the super rich. But inequality is rising.

There’s no evidence that having loads of very rich people makes us all richer.

It doesn’t.

I see your point OP and I work in a private school at the moment. My own children go to a different private school.

However, your comment about nurturing brilliant young minds really isn't correct. Just because my children's father can pay for private school doesn't mean their mind is any more brilliant than the kids at the local state school.
All schools need to nurture every child to achieve their full potential.

In my experience small schools are the way forward. In these large secondary schools the teachers can't possibly know all the children, therefore there is no relationship. The main 'better' feature of the private school I work at is the fact it is so small. I know every child I teach by name and get to know their characters really well.

If Labour could somehow arrange smaller state schools then I think they could make a success of things.

I agree with @Endofthedays. The problem is nepotism. There are kids graduating from state schools who are just as talented as those from private schools. But the top jobs are filled by public schools kids because they employ each other.

In the UK we seem to have a bizarre reverence for posh people. We judge people by their accent and assume posh=qualified. You only have to look at our politicians to see that.

I agree with Labour’s dream of abolishing private schools. It would be better for everyone if all kids had access to the same educational opportunities. But it’s a pipe dream because some schools will always be better than others and wealthy people will be able to afford to live near them. And wealthy people will be able to afford tutors and all of the extra curricular activities that benefit kids.

Everything you want for your brilliant kids i want fir my brilliant kids.
I too work as hard as i can and sacrifice everything just like you.
My kids dont deserve a lesser education because we are poor

This has got to be the politics of jealousy surely. What possible benefit will this have for state schools other than over stretching them further?

So my sons school closes and I'm forced to send him back to the local state which he hates. How much help do you think i am going to give the state school that I resent? I'll pay for a tutor (allowed?) so he'll do well academically and everyone will pat themselves on the back when a few more kids get good gcses? If private school is so reviled then why suddenly are we going to be the saviours of the state system?

They try and quash any sort of aspirations people have. The longer Corbyn stays as leader of the Labour Party the better as he's unelectable.

It would increase numbers in already overcrowded state schools as I think it would be unlikely that private schools with such great facilities would just become state schools.

I suspect they would kick the kids out and switch the business to a posh resort of some kind

Maybe i will start a campaign to give private school parents a tax cut. After all, parents eho privately educate still pay tax for a state school place. A tax cut would make private education more affordable so widening access and making the demand for state places less.

Iggly Money flow of international kids coming in to the private schools. Ultimately the sector is one that is creating employment opportunities. Your can’t pull the plug on an entire sector without their being consequences.

I don’t disagree with the inequalities angle but I think that the wealthy will always find ways to get an advantage. If it’s not private school, it’ll be tutoring or something else.

I would strongly suggest that people rad up on the uk education system, the levels of nepotism etc. It’s really interesting.

This isn’t about quashing ambition. How can it be?

If you want a truly fair society, where hard work truly does pay off, then you have to remove those unfair barrier. That includes private education.

We live in a society where the rich want to protect the status quo. They don’t want poorer people to be able to take top job So away - even if they are smart enough - because that makes things more uncertain for them. A lot of parents throw money at education because a part of them knows that hard work alone just isn’t enough.

So let’s not pretend we live in a country where you just need to work harder, regardless of background. That’s nonsense.

Money flow of international kids coming in to the private schools. Ultimately the sector is one that is creating employment opportunities

🤷🏻‍♀️

A drop in the ocean. It doesn’t create material benefit for the economy as a whole.

I suppose if you've never experienced the benefits of a really good private education then it's easy to dismiss it as a few sharp elbowed rich people who want their kid to be PM

Politics of envy.

Abolishing private education would lead to more strain on state schools (all the extra children to educate) and wouldn't achieve much for social mobility/fairness.

There would just be more selection by postcode and wealth needed to by in the right catchment. I know people have suggested things like lotteries to assign schools but again, very unfair as some schools have excellent leadership and teaching whilst others are shit. Schools do t have equal facilities or specialisms either.

IMO, rather than scapegoating the independent sector, politicians should look at how to improve funding and standards in state schools.