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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think spreading the myth that marriage is just a piece of paper is irresponsible?

218 replies

Lagobel · 12/07/2019 16:21

I've never heard anyone say, "Driving lessons are a waste of money, a driving license is just a piece of paper." I've never heard anyone say, "Studying is a waste of time, exam results are just a piece of paper." I've never heard anyone say, "I'm just going to keep renting, a mortgage is just a piece of paper." Yet almost every time the differences between marriage and cohabitation is brought up, the "piece of paper" line gets trotted out.

Why do so many people fall for it? It's so obvious that it's just a line that people (mostly men) sell their partner when they don't want to share their assets with them! "We don't need a piece of paper to prove our love" is just a way of making "I don't want to marry you" sound romantic.

Even more frustrating is when they refer to it as a "very expensive piece of paper". It doesn't have to be! A couple who get married in a register office in front of two witnesses during their lunch break are no less married than a couple who have a white wedding at a castle. The legal document is the same either way. I don't understand how people aren't aware of this – even if they don't know anyone in real life who had a £100 wedding, surely they've seen it on TV? Elopements are quite a common sitcom trope.

Before anyone says, "Just because someone isn't married to their partner it doesn't mean they don't understand the legal side of things – I don't want to get married because I'm the higher earner/I don't meet the inheritance tax threshold/I don't care whether or not I get bereavement allowance" – I'm not criticising that decision at all. There are definitely good reasons why someone may not want to get married, especially if they have children from a previous relationship and want to protect their inheritance. But in those cases, people are choosing not to marry BECAUSE they know it's not just a piece of paper. They're aware of the legal implications, and they've made an informed decision.

I'm frustrated by this because I have a friend who's upset that her son's father has just told her he doesn't want to get engaged in the next five years (and he wants the subsequent engagement to last at least two years). They're in their thirties and she's a SAHM. The rest of our friendship group is telling her that she's being silly, of course he's committed to her, marriage is unnecessary nowadays, a piece of paper and a ring won't change their relationship. I don't want to be a downer, but it annoys me that they're giving her a false sense of security, yet if I say anything I'll probably get shit for being the one to tell her what she doesn't want to hear.

OP posts:
Pinkyponkcustard · 12/07/2019 16:26

Totally agree!

I’ve got a colleague who keeps saying that cos she can prove she “paid into the joint account” that she’s entitled to 50% if they split up!

AnneLovesGilbert · 12/07/2019 16:31

if I say anything I'll probably get shit for being the one to tell her what she doesn't want to hear.

And told you’re a smug married. That’s what usually happens on here in these discussions.

You’re completely right. A £50 note is also a piece of paper. And a passport. Every week someone on here ends up screwed over because they didn’t really understand how vulnerable they were, or have a handful of kids but doesn’t want to suggest getting married because they’re “traditional” and want a big proposal and they’re waiting to be asked.

Loopytiles · 12/07/2019 16:34

Your friend is an idiot to be a SAHM in her circumstances, but that’s her responsibility, the info is very easily available.

Loopytiles · 12/07/2019 16:36

The friends are being unhelpful, but are not the problem here, your frustration is misdirected. your friend - and her “D”P are the only ones responsible for the situation.

I wouldn’t volunteer an opinion unless she asks for it directly!

Lauraloop1516 · 12/07/2019 16:37

Absolutely. Completely agree.

AnneLovesGilbert · 12/07/2019 16:40

People also seem confused about the irrelevance of being engaged. When you split up, the courts don’t treat you as married because you were thinking about heading up the aisle at some point. A ring on your finger is pretty but has no legal meaning.

RedSheep73 · 12/07/2019 16:42

Agree with everything you said OP. It's a very important piece of paper! I went through a stage with my then partner, where I wanted to get married and he didn't, trotted out the bit of paper line etc. We split up over it for 6 months, until he realised he was being an arse.

CellularBlanket · 12/07/2019 16:57

It should be taught that it is a contract. This should be taught at school.

Teddybear45 · 12/07/2019 16:58

I agree with you. Marriage is a form of legal protection. We should be teaching that to our kids.

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 12/07/2019 16:59

YANBU
We are very sentimental about marriage now where it used to be recognised for what it is; a legal contract covering assets, children, next of kin etc.
How often is it the financially vulnerable partner who is putting off marriage as its only a piece of paper?

SAHP (usually mothers) who are not married are in an incredibly vulnerable position unless they have put equivalent protections in place.

CellularBlanket · 12/07/2019 16:59

Oh an it is nothing to do with weddings, dresses, bridesmaids etc!

MeanMrMustardSeed · 12/07/2019 17:03

Totally agree.

herculepoirot2 · 12/07/2019 17:08

Any man who specifically didn’t want to marry me after a year or two in a relationship would be learning about the hardness of the kerb on the softness of his bottom. Your friend, however, knows what’s going on. It doesn’t matter what you or anyone else says to her.

Proteinshakesandovieshat · 12/07/2019 17:10

I have actually seen on here, alot, people claiming that it's awful to reduce marriage down to a business transaction and forgetting its about Love.

They seem genuinely annoyed when you point out that actually, it's a legal contract first and foremost

InTheHeatofLisbon · 12/07/2019 17:12

Couldn't agree more. DP and I aren't married, because I have more assets and he doesn't want them. So for us the way things are work.

BUT it is clear that for many women, men use money as a form of control or don't accept that being a SAHM means no NI contributions, and no pension beyond state pension.

In those situations I'd completely agree that it is a lot more than a piece of paper, it's legal protection from being screwed over. Hardly romantic but there we are.

GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER · 12/07/2019 17:12

Absolutely. I know of 2 couples who were together for several years but didn't get married because in both cases the bloke said it was just an unnecessary piece of paper.
Only for him to eventually bugger off with someone else - and marry her very soon afterwards.

I know it's not true in every case, but IMO so often when one or other doesn't want to commit, it's not because they think marriage is an unnecessary, outdated patriarchal concept etc. etc. etc. - it's because they don't want to make a commitment to that particular person.

notacooldad · 12/07/2019 17:15

I've switched off to the "its only a piece of paper" comments except to people I really care about and remind them that their job contract, the deeds to their house., their birth certificate is' only a piece of paper' but they are happy that they have them!

InTheHeatofLisbon · 12/07/2019 17:15

I have actually seen on here, alot, people claiming that it's awful to reduce marriage down to a business transaction and forgetting its about Love

They're the kind of people who don't understand what it is.

If you aren't the higher earner/asset holder or have taken a long career break to be a SAHP (mostly women to be fair) then marriage offers important legal protections in the event of a split.

I know everyone says it'll never happen, but it does. To the people you least expect it to as well!

I don't love DP any less because we're not married, that's a ridiculous assertion. As is all the fuss about weddings and all the bollocks that comes with them now.

It's about protecting yourself either with a marriage or without (as in my case).

Because love is all well and good, but people can be cunts. Any people.

zsazsajuju · 12/07/2019 17:16

Marriage is not just a “piece of paper” but obviously has legal implications which are of benefit to the lower earner/party with fewer assets. Have you thought though that your “friend” may be well aware of the legal implications but there’s not really anything she can do about it is there? She can’t force him to get married and probably your other friends are just trying to comfort her. Perhaps she genuinely isn’t aware but I think that’s unlikely these days and she can find out by googling. So I would leave her be unless she asks you for advice.

Would you be so angry if your friend was the higher earner and her partner was the sahp? Why not just myob- this stuff is taught at school and the information is available for those who want it. Why does it bother you if others don’t get married?

zsazsajuju · 12/07/2019 17:20

@InTheHeatofLisbon being an unmarried sahp doesn’t mean no NI contributions. NI contributions are paid by the government if you claim child benefit (even if you earn too much to receive it) until your child is 12.

I don’t think being married makes any difference to NI these days.

ChiaraRimini · 12/07/2019 17:21

YANBU OP. I'm glad that I am old enough that getting married before kids was just taken for granted. (Divorced now). Nowadays it seems the opposite is true and it's the partner who has left work to look after the kids who gets screwed over.

AnneLovesGilbert · 12/07/2019 17:21

Why not just myob- this stuff is taught at school and the information is available for those who want it.

OP cares about her friend and doesn’t want her to get shafted. It’s not taught in schools. The people who most need to know never both to find out. It’s shocking how many people still believe in common law marriage which isn’t a thing in the U.K.

GeorgeTheFirst · 12/07/2019 17:29

You're right and she's a fool. Lots of people are.

InTheHeatofLisbon · 12/07/2019 17:31

being an unmarried sahp doesn’t mean no NI contributions

I didn't realise that. Still though, no protection in the event of a split and no way of getting a reasonable settlement if you've taken significant time off to raise a family.

aposterhasnoname · 12/07/2019 17:37

Couldn’t agree more, and couldn’t have put it better myself.

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