30 hours free childcare

[WhiteCat1704]

My DS is eligible for 30 free hours childcare from September. I was looking forward to a significant reduction in fees which are high as he is full time.

As he is full time-5 days per week, 52 weeks per year he gets a 15% discount on a day rate. As do other full time kids.

I found out today that when his funded hours kick in we will lose that discount!! So the almost 5k the nursery will get from the council will not give us the 5k reduction
It will be more like 2.5k.

I have asked them to justify it and they just repeated about how the government doesn't give enough money to cover costs...
Their cost have not suddenly went up as we are getting the funding. He is still there full time. They removed our discount and will be getting 2.5k more for him being there...

I'm annoyed enough about it to consider changing nurseries but DS is so well settled that I don't want to.

They are ripping us off aren't they?
Do other nurseries do the same?

Every nursery has completely different rules unfortunately

They are correct in that the government does not give them enough money to cover costs. Private nurseries across the country are closing down because they can’t cover costs. The government funding also only cover 39 weeks of the year.

The amount that the nursery gets per hr for 'funded' won't be as much as they charge you, even with the discount unfortunately. They need to cover their costs - as you said, their costs haven't changed.

I think per funded hour nurseries only get around £4.50 per child which isn’t a huge amount depending on which area you are in.
Our nursery does this as well, once the free hours kick in the discount goes. I love the nursery he goes too so I wouldn’t pull him out, good nurseries where they are settled are hard to find.

It’s up to you though

They are ripping us off aren't they?

No they're being honest. They're right when they say the government don't pay enough. It sounds like an amazing initiative for parents, who wouldn't love 30 free hours. However, its not actually free, it's a poorly subsidized scheme, and has led to many nurseries closing.

No, the Government is ripping you off. They basically promised you free childcare with other people’s money.

In many cases, the funding doesn’t cover fees. I’m not surprised your nursery can’t afford a further discount as well as the subsidy they are already being forced to give.

The nursery have to find the extra money from somewhere otherwise they wouldn't be able to offer the 30 hours scheme.

The hourly rate the council pays the nursery falls far short of their normal hourly rate. Nursery's and childminders do not want funded hours, it will cause financial hardship for these businesses.

This was why I pulled my son out of his private nursery and moved him to a school nursery for his 30 hours. They truly are free there. I was still going to be paying a few hundred a month at the private one.

Unfortunately the term FREE is misleading for sure.

Let's say the nursery charge £60 a day for 7-6 care. That's £5.45 per hour. £300 per week. £15600 per year.

Now let's presume the council fund the nursery £4.50 per hour. That's £135 per week funded with 25 hours left to pay. Technically the nursery would have to charge £6.20 an hour for those non funded hours to just break even.

Trust me there is not a massive profit in childcare!

And don't forget for 13 weeks a year you have to pay full fee too

The government are inadequately funding the nurseries.

The reason school nurseries can offer 30 hours truly free is slightly more complex. For starters, they are only open 39 weeks of the year, so unlike day nurseries they're not having to spread your funding. Also, school nurseries only take 3 years old and upwards, so their child to adult ratios will be lower,and lower still if they have a qualified teacher on the premises as ratio drops to 1:13. Their staff costs will be significantly lower, and they benefit from resources, shared overheads and other associated costs with the school.

If you want truly free 30 hours, a nursery within a school is your best bet. The govt does not pay enough to nurseries for this 'free' scheme. In the last 2 years I have worked in 2 private nurseries, both of which closed as they couldn't afford to continue without charging extortionate top up fees to parents.

I think you've done quite well getting a discount all this time. I don't know any nurseries that give a discount for full time hours.

Instead you are getting 30 hours funded a week and in theory only having to pay for 10 full price (no discount) hours, on which you can then get a 20% discount through tax free childcare, so you should only be paying for 8 hours a week. It's hard to see how you would end up worse off.

Campaign group.
m.facebook.com/groups/ChampagneNurseries/

Ok I get it's not free BUT what is happening here is we are subsidising it anyway and they just removed the discount which means that overall THEY are getting more money for him than if we didn't claim the funding...that can't be right..

We have to pay a set charge for the days he is claiming the "free hours".

It works out around 12k per year at the moment. They will get 5k from the council(£4.3 per hour times 1140hours in a year). Instead of reducing our bill by 5k they removed our discount so the cost would be around 14.5k and with the funding we need to pay 9.5k to make up the difference..

So 0-2 year olds get a 15% discount on a 5day per week booking.
3+ do not get a discount.

I don't see what is wrong with that.

So your childcare bill is reducing by 2.5k.

If we didn't claim the funding we would still have the discount. It's for ALL children that are full time in that nursery.

So your childcare bill is reducing by 2.5k.

It should reduce by 5k.

So your childcare bill is reducing by 2.5k

concentrate on this -

@WhiteCat1704 I could have written this post, only we only got a 10% reduction for full time. I've had a meeting with the owner and the finance person and they just can't justify why they are getting more money for the same service. I.e if I don't claim the funding from the government they would earn less for my dd. In the end we've compromised and they've agreed to give me 5% off.

Because we need our 3 year olds care to stretch 52 weeks of the year it took our weekly “free” hours down to 22 which is woefully short of the hours he does there per week. Then on top of this our nursery brought in a £6 a day food charge which for a full time child would cost an extra £120 a month on top of still paying for the unfunded hours at full price. However they don’t have a choice as they are not getting their costs met by the government. I’d rather they did this than refused to take the funding at all which must be tempting to a lot of nurseries.

I think per funded hour nurseries only get around £4.50 per child which isn’t a huge amount depending on which area you are in.

it's a poorly subsidized scheme, and has led to many nurseries closing

How much is the hourly charge?

you always not claim the funding and keep your discount?