30 hours free childcare

[WhiteCat1704]

My DS is eligible for 30 free hours childcare from September. I was looking forward to a significant reduction in fees which are high as he is full time.

As he is full time-5 days per week, 52 weeks per year he gets a 15% discount on a day rate. As do other full time kids.

I found out today that when his funded hours kick in we will lose that discount!! So the almost 5k the nursery will get from the council will not give us the 5k reduction
It will be more like 2.5k.

I have asked them to justify it and they just repeated about how the government doesn't give enough money to cover costs...
Their cost have not suddenly went up as we are getting the funding. He is still there full time. They removed our discount and will be getting 2.5k more for him being there...

I'm annoyed enough about it to consider changing nurseries but DS is so well settled that I don't want to.

They are ripping us off aren't they?
Do other nurseries do the same?

How much does your discount equate to now?
How much is the cost to you now and how much will your costs be after the 30 hours are applied?

Is the 12k pa the after discount figure or before?

you always not claim the funding and keep your discount?

And why would I?
He is entitled to the hours. This money is coming from taxes I pay. Why should it go to an already expensive nursery and not help working parents out? As it's designed to do..

Was this not specified in the terms and conditions you signed when enrolling him?

Not sure why you’re getting a hard time OP. I totally agree with you!

I left one nursery for similar to this OP.

Each funded hour had a top up fee that I was happy to pay, but then each additional non funded hour was at a higher rate than the standard rate that I had been paying. It made no sense.

I left and am at a lovely nursery now, who are very transparent about their charges.

Whitecat there is very little money to be made in childcare. And so what if there was? They're not glorified babysitters, they are early educators. They teach your children important social skills, encourage their emotional development, help their early literacy and numeracy skills and nurture them.

It beggars belief that some people pay their cleaner more per hour than they pay the people guiding their child through the important early years.

Yes he is entitled to the funded hours but not necessarily from your preferred provider. Nurseries don’t have to offer the full funded hours at all. Our DS1’s nursery doesn’t, they only offer the standard 15 hours even if you are entitled to the extended entitlement. So we still pay £380 a month even though he only attends 2 days a week.

Nurseries are closing all over the country because of inadequate funding. If there are many more closures, plenty of people will find it difficult to find childcare at all.

That’s just the way it is. Perhaps consider stretching the funded hours across providers. As well as his private nursery, DS1 also goes to preschool 12 hours a week which we don’t pay anything for as they offer the extended entitlement hours.

It beggars belief that some people pay their cleaner more per hour than they pay the people guiding their child through the important early years.

And beggars belief that central government think that's all our children are worth.

Leith but we all know what the govt think, at least those of us in Early Years do. The 30 hours entitlement, along with that ridiculous GCSE maths requirement for anyone taking level 3 has done significant harm to the provision of early years education country-wide.

It sounds like early in they give the discount to build up a client base. Maybe at cost as 12k a year is very little for a FT child. Once the 30h kicks in, they're finally able to make a bit of profit.

It beggars belief that some people pay their cleaner more per hour than they pay the people guiding their child through the important early years.

We have been paying 12k per year! He now has 1 to 8 ratio of carers to children. This is not an insignificant amount.
30 "free" hours childcare is supposed to help working parents out. It's not designed for nurseries to make extra money on.

To be fair I don't think many places do double discount or allow one offer to be used on top of another. I just see it the same as that.

They won't be getting 5k from the government for your child. The rate for the 30hrs is set by the government and it will be less than the fee yiy pay per hour. It is also only for 38 weeks of the year. I am assure you the nursery will not be making any money out of it. This is why many nurseries refuse to offer the 30 hours or go bust

They are not making extra money, they are trying to make sure they stay open.

So for example, the true cost of caring for your child per hour could be £6, the amount they charge parents might be £7, but the government may only pay £4.50 or thereabouts.

It's not free, it's funded. Inadequately.

I think the government is at fault here- direct your anger there.
Remember nurseries are run by working parents too, they also need a living wage. Childcare costs suck but it’s not for ever.

Whitecat yes, but the nursery are not the bad guys here. Central govt are. Maybe direct your rage at them.

They're not ripping you off. What the govt pays nurseries for the free hours is not enough. All nurseries need to make up the shortfall so moving your child to a different nursery is unlikely to make a big difference.

I'm just grateful that ANY of it is paid once they reach 3.

I agree OP - per hour dd2's nursery get more now with council funding plus the amount that i pay despite bigger ratios and no nappy costs. It's annoying, particularly knowing how low paid the brilliant staff are but ultimately I decided I wasn't prepared to move her so it was senseless moaning about it.

DDs nursery offer the hours but say you have to pay for "wrap around" whether you use it or not so you pay £5.50 for 7.30-9am and then £5.50 for 3.30pm-5pm and you can then have an extra hour for £6 if you want to opt to pick them up at 6pm. I actually like it as there's been many times I've needed an earlier drop off or later pick up I've been able to as they won't refuse entry before your childs normal time.

They also calculate the hours across the year and then charge you the same each month so you don't have a sudden increase in the bill in months where there's a holiday, they then apply an admin charge of £10 for this calculation.

And then charge for lunch, although you can provide your own most of the children have the onsite food.

It still costs me £300 a month for her to go 3.5 days a week but it's so worth it. She will continue to go until mid August when we go on holiday then she goes to school.

Also consider this, the amount everyone pays collectively is what pays staff wages and overheads. When you were receiving a discount, you were benefitting from others who paid higher fees. Now you are paying the higher fees, although your total childcare bill has reduced. It evens out.

My 3yo is starting nursery at the primary school her sister attends and where she will start reception in Sept 2020. For 6.5 hours per day termtime I will cost me £3 per day. She is leaving a private pre school that takes only 2years plus, which would have been completely free for 6 hours per day, for which I've been paying only fractionally more than the £4.50 per hour quoted in this thread while she's attended without funding for the past year. This nursery has been operating from a church hall for many years and has a good ofsted rating, so it's simply untrue to say that a nursery costs more per hour to run than the government funding because it doesn't have to.

If some nurseries are able to operate profitably at this rate then surely its the right rate for the taxpayer to bear - if some parents wish to pay more to send their children to 'better' nurseries then that's a matter of choice. Just be aware that there is perfectly good childcare available for free (clearly you'll still need to pay if you need more than 6 hours per day/school holidays)

“It beggars belief that some people pay their cleaner more per hour than they pay the people guiding their child through the important early years.”

This made me think and check the sums. Nursery is currently £7 an hour - £70 8-6. My cleaner gets £12 an hour.

The government scheme just isn’t sustainable. I’d rather have my 15 hours and a nursery able to function and not scrimp than 30 hours and worse care.

The government do not pay the nursery the actual hourly rate you pay. The pay less. If the nursery gave you the discount and the 30 free hours they would be losing money compared to what you are paying now. They are not doing this to get more money. They are doing this to break even.

This has been going on since the scheme came in. It's been all over the news repeatedly. I'm surprised more people aren't aware. Like others have said, every nursery is different. Some don't allow the scheme at all. Others will recoup their losses (because the scheme means they are taking children in at a loss!) by changing for other things. I wouldn't risk moving your DC until you've researched fully what other nurseries in the area are like about it.

It's actually only 30 hours free during term time (which is fair). So in reality you will still need to pay for 13 weeks per year.

It's a well known fact that if you work in early years, you do it for the love and not the money.

@Tfoot75 I would imagine the pre school you're talking about didn't run profitably, as pre schools rarely do. The costs associated with running from a church hall are hugely reduced, sometimes even waived entirely.

There will of course always be exceptions. But I know from my many years in the business that often staff pay for resources out of their own pocket, complete paperwork in their own, unpaid time and generally make a lot of sacrifices in order to provide the best possible care for your children.