AIBU to wonder if marriage is necessary?

[QueenofPain]

I know the party line on MN is largely “get married before having DC as you need the legal protection”.

However, if the woman is the higher earner with a very healthy pension (in this case almost double the male partners salary) and has accepted that SAHM life is never going to be on the cards for these financial reasons, is marriage the best financial decision? Is it not the best financial decision but perhaps a good idea for other reasons?

This was touched on in a thread the other day, but not enough for me to fully understand. Obviously I could go and read the law and the facts, but anecdotal information seems to offer more insight into real life situations.

I would have to agree with a PP if your intentions is to keep things separate and not be "joined", then probably best not. I definitely wouldn't do it, if I wasn't 100% committed to sharing our lives and all that comes with that.

I think deep down people know if marriage is right for them or not and best to obviously find someone with the same values. P
Aside from finances just out of interest, would you like to be married ?

Nothing against marriage, but at the moment you can't have a marriage without a wedding, which in my opinion are a huge, stressful, narcissistic waste of money .

Bring on the civil partnership for all! minimum fuss but all the legal benefits.

@Bourbonbiccy Well I guess so, but I don’t really see how it would be much different to a normal day to day relationship. It’s nice to make that commitment, and I suppose the validation that comes from being married to each other but a lot of people in marriages seem to treat it like it’s nothing anyway. I feel that if you have a fundamentally good and decent partner then they are that person with or without marriage.

I am certainly not ready yet, just acquiring food for thought.

Marriage isn’t important to me or my partner. We have been together 20 years, have a mortgage, joint account and are each others beneficiary on pensions, insurance policies etc. We also have a will that tells of our wishes for splitting assets when we die.

We don’t have kids, I’m not sure if my feelings would have changed if we had. We also both work and earn similar amounts so the financial protection is not an issue for us. I can afford the mortgage etc on my own if it ever came to that.

We fully intend to be together for the rest of our lives. I find the idea of marriage very odd. I don’t want to enter in to a contract linking me to another person, I can’t get my head around it really. I want to be living and sharing my life with my partner because it’s my choice at that point in time. I also want the freedom to not be with my parter at any point in time, without having to get our relationship legally broken.

I fully support anyone’s decision to marry, and enjoy a good wedding! It’s just not something I have ever wanted to do.

If I wasn't married, I'd be good and fucked right now. Royally, financially, fucked.

Won't be doing it again, but thank God I got that 1st piece of paper. It's saved my naive ass good and proper.

@PicsInRed Do you feel comfortable elaborating a little bit? No worries if not.

I earn more than twice that of DH, I was also never going to be a SAHM. I wanted to get married as I believe it's important to have that family unit before children come along. I wanted someone to marry me for me not because I was the mother of their children.

Marriage to me represents stability, commitment and permanence - and yeah I know marriages fail etc but at least you both stated out with that intention

So many posts on here refer to DP rather than DH and in a lot of those OP is in a tricky situation where the man has turned out to be an arse hole but they've been together a year and are on their second kid.....

Marriage is hard at Times not going to lie - psychologically it feels more permanent so you work harder at it

Fill me in peeps. Obviously being a UK forum, you guys are talking about UK law. Where I’m from we have various systems under which you marry. One which you share all assets jointly, one where you only share what is accumulated whilst you were married and then one which you share nothing ie you leave with what you came with. Obviously we then have other laws which protect women who rely on their husbands earnings whilst being SAHMs or whatever the case may be should you get divorced and you can claim spousal maintenance but that is generally only for the really wealthy.

We also don’t really have a benefits system and any assets transferred between spouses are largely exempt from inheritance tax, especially on death.

So my husband and I are married basically only for love...

We’re unmarried, have kids, been together 20 years ish.

People have thrown all kinds of arguments at us (it seems to bother them that we aren’t married) and literally the only legal/financial way I think we’d be stung is inheritance tax. Before anyone starts shouting, yes we have other bases covered: wills, house, pensions, life/critical illness insurance, joint parental responsibility etc. Earnings not an issue- we earn equally and don’t neither plans to have any time off work for kids. But the inheritance tax thing is not insignificant, it seems.

But I absolutely wouldn’t have a wedding ‘do’. Loads of our friends whose weddings we have been to have got divorced, and it’s left me even more sceptical than I was before. Simply not willing to ask friends and family to give their time, money, tears and love to something which- unless you are truly looking at it through rose tinted specs- literally isn’t binding and which all too often we’ve seen go tits up, sometimes within a couple of years or even months.

I’ll make the choice to be with my partner quietly and daily. Unless the inheritance tax thing swings it, of course 😉

I had a few reasons:

• We own a home jointly; if I was hit by a bus I wouldn't want DH (then DP) having issues with legal next of kin, inheritance tax, workplace pension/death in service benefits, etc. Same the other way around.
• If I was hit by a bus and in a critical condition, had a life-threatening event in childbirth or was sectioned, I'd want DH making the decisions as legal NOK - not my mother!
• if I died in childbirth or was incapacitated, I'd want DH to have immediate parental responsibility
• I plan to go back to work after having children - however if I or DC has complications, that might be difficult. The physical effects of pregnancy are a consideration.
• I was the higher earner for the first 7 years of our relationship - I'm not now. DH found a specialist niche that he is very skilled in. Things can change. - My parents never married, and when they separated my mum did not get a good deal. If they had been married, my mum would probably have walked away with enough for a deposit on a modest home for us, instead we rented throughout my childhood.

Oh, and I rather fancied a bloody good party, which was a bonus after all the above considerations.

@QueenofPain I think you are right, my brother has been with his partner the same amount I have been with my hubby, they are very happy, my brother doesn't believe in marriage and doesn't want children, he has know from being a teen, it's just not for him. There relationship should be no less validated than ours.

I always knew I wanted to be married before I had children. I met my husband and it was just right and I love being married, but it's not for everyone.

I don't think you need to be married to make a commitment to eachother, so long as you are both on the same page about it. But I wouldn't have decided to get married if I wanted to keep everything separate.

A civil partnership covers you financially (I believe, but I don't know the legal ins and outs ) so no need for marriage if you don't believe in it.

And yes, I feel like marriage is a more permanent and monogamous state of mind. It’s a choice you make with the intention of being together forever.

PicsInRedDo you feel comfortable elaborating a little bit? No worries if not.

He left and decided he wouldn't provide any money at all, including child maintenance (CMS for that, if course) and that, as he was going home, he was taking all his toys with him. Naturally, I would pay all the bills towards those toys until he was ready to collect. 🤔

He quite literally intended for me to become homeless and penniless, ideally combined with a full mental breakdown (he struck out on all 3).

Some men turn out to be really feral when they take the mask off.

Family court and the protection of marriage has put paid to his grand plans. Too bad for him. 🤣

Its all personal choice OP, thats the long and short of it. Google will give you the legislations as to why it is better toget marrried.
AL l can say is, from an annecdotal perspective, several of our long term friends have been togetherwell in excess of 30 years, and in the other clase getting on for 50 years. Neither couple married, all have joint assets suc has house, car etc, children. Each has been told to get married to secure pensions and more importanttly inheritance. Ditto a set of acquaintances, one with etermnal cancer, went ot make wills, and were told by the solicitor to get married PDQ that was the easiest water tight solution.

NOK isnt a legal status, you may well be with someone for 20, 30 years, but if you die and you havent made provision, and there is family friction, your partner will be turfed out of the house, possibly not able to carry out your funeral wishes, and add in the mix of step families and it all gets nasty.

IMHO the law is there for a reason, and that reason is protection.

The status of next-of-kin confers no legal rights and has no special responsibilities, except as referred to in the specific context of the Mental Health Act. The status of next-of-kin does not in any way imply that they stand to inherit any of the individual's estate in the event of their death.

MsScribbles you could just go away for the weekend and get married, with witnesses from the registry office. We did this- cost about £50, no guests

Of course you can have a marriage without a wedding. You go to the Registry Office with a couple of witnesses and that's it. Don't know what the cost is currently, but I'd be surprised if it's much more than £100. No need to tell anyone else if you don't want to.

One thing to be aware of is that marriage invalidates any will you already have unless it was made just before the marriage and very clearly in anticipation of it. So without a new will your estate or your partner's would be distributed in accordance with intestacy legislation.

I've been married for several decades. At my age the idea of automatically being next of kin is very important. In the UK I can't imagine that anyone would ever challenge a long-term partner as the NOK but I'm not so confident that would apply in all other countries, including many popular holiday destinations.

Inheritance tax also seems a bit more of a consideration than it did, but that's probably a very London-specific issue.

Half of all marriages end in divorce. The other half don't. I don't think the possibility of divorce should be the driving force over whether to marry or not. You have to think of the other possibility too, which is that it all works out and you're still together at the end of your lives.

@MyOpinionIsValid this is exactly what I keep advising my brother of as his lovely partner would not legally get anything, he thinks we are a nice enough family to ensure that happens (while I agree), we lost my mum last year and my extended family just behaved like heartless animals.

He needs to write a will, but he claims she is already more than provided for in the event of his death and will receive everything , but I don't see how without a will.😕😕😕

If, as some have implied, married is unimportant - why have the LGBT community fought for the right to be married for so long?

www.citizensadvice.org.uk/family/living-together-marriage-and-civil-partnership/living-together-and-marriage-legal-differences/

firstthings.org/myths-about-living-together

www.moneywise.co.uk/news/2018-02-14%E2%80%8C%E2%80%8C/financial-pros-cons-marriage

@Bourbonbiccy - he can make his partner a beneficiary of his pension, that isnt an issue - but inheritance may be. Especially if there is property involved - thare are no tax concessions

As a live in partner, there are NO legal rights automatically assumed.

A will needn't be complex. A witnessed one liner of 'I leave everything to my partner Mary Jane (full name) is perfectly adequate - and its not expensive, we did mirror wills and it was around 300 for the pair. We also review every so often. You'd be surprised how things change, who has died, or has a baby.

I've seen so many awful stories here of how some family members behave after a death. I'd never rely on a promise to do the right thing. It has to be backed up by a will.

Re mirror wills - always remember that anybody can replace a will at any time after it's made.

However, if the woman is the higher earner with a very healthy pension (in this case almost double the male partners salary) and has accepted that SAHM life is never going to be on the cards for these financial reasons, is marriage the best financial decision? Is it not the best financial decision but perhaps a good idea for other reasons?

You are assuming financial reasons are the only reasons you might not be a SAH. You might have a fatal accident, a terminal illness, or just plain think 'sod this' and down size your life, or 'I want to be a SAHP'.

Always wise to weigh up all the consequences

It depends on why? I never wanted to have children without being married. It wasn't really about the financial security.

I also see it as a committment to each other.

Even if I was a multimillionaire, I would still want to get married, although I expect I'd choose a man who was wealthy in his own right too.

@GoodbyeRosie utter bollacks. You can still go to a registry office with two random witnesses, say a few words and sign a bit of paper to get married. It's not obligatory to have the pomp and ceremony.

For me money never came into it. It was more about the rest of the legal advantages.

@MyOpinionIsValid

Yeah, that’s a totally valid point. I would love to be in a position to consider being a SAHM, but would I love it enough to dramatically impact our lifestyle in other areas, by reducing the household income down to a third of what it currently is...at the moment it seems unthinkable. However who knows how i’d feel when faced with the reality of returning to work and leaving a precious baby with someone else.