That he can be himself, and the family need to accept and respect that?

[ttrt]

I've got a sibling who has had a really tough time in life, from losing their Dad at an early age and then lots of upheaval in their home life over many years, I wouldn't have liked to walk even a few yards in their shoes even now never mind as a child and teen.

For almost 16 years I've had a sister, and for much of her life as well as the typical big brother tormenting role, I've also had to take her Dad's place too, which was certainly quite a challenge given I was younger then than she is now!

Over the past couple of years she's really struggled with her identity and who she really was, coming to the realisation that whilst she was still the same person inside that she has always been and always would be, the body wasn't the right fit. Ultimately this led to a diagnosis of gender dysphoria and moving towards their new identity.

I'm now very proud to say that I have an incredible younger brother who is living his life to the full and so much happier now he doesn't feel he has to hide away who he is and feel trapped pretending to be somebody and something he isn't.

Anybody familiar with this journey will know that there is an awful long way to go, and no doubt many more bumps in the road as he strives to find happiness and to be comfortable in his own body and who he is, but he's come such a long way in a really short space of time, and I really couldn't be any prouder if I tried.

The medical side of things will all take a lot longer, its a slow process but rightly so because such physical changes are a lot for him to deal with and process, never mind those around him! This morning however he (and we) have taken a massive step forward, by completing the process necessary to legally change his name. He has chosen to live as a boy as much as he's been able to for the past 12 months, but legally he's still been girls name". Once this process is finalised, he will legally be called boys name*, and will be able to leave behind the name he's hated for so long once and for all, moving forward with the next step of his journey and living the rest of his life as the person he really is.

When he first told me how he felt, which feels like a lifetime ago now, I just remember thinking that I couldn't imagine not being happy and comfortable in my own body and feeling like I was living a lie, and that was as an adult never mind during the most emotionally challenging of teenage years. But at the same time overwhelming respect that he was brave enough to do something about it, and intense love for the person trapped inside - after all, what's on the outside is just packaging, it's part of who you are at that time but it doesn't have define who you are inside and who you will be in the future.

Our Mum whilst struggling with some aspects of the transition could not be more supportive, and most of the family are exactly the same. His circle of friends love him for who he is, and I'm sure they'd defend him no matter what should the need ever arise, not that it ever has so far.

One relative, however, remains adamant that it's a "phase", and that they aren't going to use his new name, refer to him as male using male pronouns or respect this journey he has embarked upon. AIBU to think that if they love him they will be able to do exactly this, no matter how conflicted they may feel? Surely the wellbeing of somebody you love and care about comes first?

Male and female status is defined by your chromosomes, which cannot be changed. That is why it cannot be correct to say a person with male chromosomes is female or vice versa. Your sex is defined chromosomally, not by your feelings.
I actually think you know that. If not, I’m concerned about the quality of education you experienced.

Not sure about the need for the personal slight? But thanks for your input.

I'll be honest, biology bored me at school - and my further education has been in fields about as far removed from the human body as you can possibly get. I like to think the quality of my academic education has been pretty high, but more importantly I've also learned a lot about people in terms of their feelings and their happiness in life, which is perhaps why I try to be quite open minded and tolerant. In fact, no not tolerant as I don't tolerate people I love and respect them for who they are.

I probably won't get very far arguing with the science, as hands up I'd be totally out of my depth.

How can it be right, however, to force somebody to live their life in a way which makes them uncomfortable and unhappy? Why force them to change how they feel (or, more likely, force them to paint on a smile and pretend they're feeling how the world thinks they should when inside they are at breaking point)? Why "treat" their "condition" as an illness?

If somebody born male feels more comfortable living their life as a female, why can't they? If they prefer to be called Freda instead of Fred (or even Carole, whatever makes them happy) then surely that's their choice to make? If they choose pretty dresses over suits, so what? If they're more at home when people refer to them as he and him, is that really such a big deal?

Even if they decide they ultimately want to make changes to their physical body so that it's closer in appearance to the female form than the male (or vice-versa), it's their body and surely they are free to do as they wish with it?

If I love and care about somebody, be they a relative or a friend, I'd want them to be happy and comfortable in their life and to be able to live it in the way that best fits them, not that best fits the societal norms.

If an anorexic says they are fat, do you encourage them to diet, or to seek mental health services?

A big part of the "treatment" and support that somebody diagnosed with Gender Dysphoria receives is counselling. This isn't aimed at convincing them that they are wrong or "fixing them", however, well certainly not in my experience (I've only been on the periphery, obviously) but more about them understanding and coming to terms with how they feel.

I think to suggest somebody decides one day they want to be a different gender, and then out comes the hormone treatment and the surgeons knife would be entirely wrong. Instead they are supported in living life how they are most comfortable. Many don't have medical/surgical changes made, because they don't feel it necessary (or because the services aren't as readily available to them, but that's another can of worms entirely!), but still live a content, fulfilling life in their new gender. And why shouldn't they?

If somebody born male feels more comfortable living their life as a female, why can't they?

How does living life as a male differ from living life as a female?

She can live anyway she likes. Wear what ever she likes and call herself what ever she likes. But she cant change her chromosomes or grow a fully functioning penis.

I admire the way you are trying to be supportive but at some point you might question whether lying to someone is, indeed supportive.

I gave a certain amount of experience of dealing with these issues (more than I'd like). My worry is that we don't have the support systems available which would allow a healthier approach. For me helping the person come to terms with the body they were born with makes considerably more sense than indulging the misconception that it is somehow wrong.

Good luck to you and your sibling this is not an easy situation.

Well, I'm with OP, I'm not great with science. I'm not a qualified psychologist or psychiatrist either.

What I am great with, is acceptance. It hurts me not a whit, and may upset them a great deal, if I cannot show a bit of grace, and use the name, and the terminology they wish to be addressed by and referred to with.

It pisses me off that my mother will not use the nicknames my girls wish to use. No, what matters, apparently, is that you use a person's full name. Why?! It's their name, ffs! It's their identity!

Absolutely fine to call them whatever they would like to be called - that's called respect and love.

But 15 is far too young and after what they've been through they need a period of having less change. So puberty inhibiting drugs and surgeries are likely too much change at their age.

YANBU, and I’m pleased your brother has you for support

@ImNotYourGranny

To my mind, it really doesn't - well, it shouldn't. We should surely all be free to live our lives how we choose and express ourselves in the ways we consider best, within the confines of the law of course.

In my brothers case, he chooses to use a name which would be more traditionally associated with a male rather than a female, and it is his wish that people refer to him as he and him rather than she and her. He chooses to dress in clothing which tends to be stereotyped as male rather than female. He chooses to wear a binder so that his chest has a more male physical appearance. He has his hair cut in a style more usually seen on males than females.

He may, in the future, elect medical treatments which are available including hormone treatments and surgery. He may not, I don't think even he knows at this point whether that's the route he will take.

@GatherlyGal I totally get the point you are making, however why should it be necessary for them to come to terms with a body/physical characteristics/even lifestyle options and choices which they would prefer not to come to terms with? If they choose to live their life a little differently to the physical normal for the gender their chromosomes dictate they were born as, isn't that their right to choose? An if ultimately they choose to make physical alterations to their body, to make them feel more comfortable, again shouldn't they be able to do that?

I guess, ultimately, other than physically for procreation and reproduction, does there have to be differentiation? Do we always have to stick to the male and female stereotypes? Can't a man choose to live life in the way a woman stereotypically would, or a woman choose the stereotypical male way of life? Heck, why not pick the bits of both which makes your life happy and complete.

Male and female status is defined by your chromosomes, which cannot be changed. That is why it cannot be correct to say a person with male chromosomes is female or vice versa. Your sex is defined chromosomally, not by your feelings.

So what would you say to those intersex people who have lived all their lives as either male or female and then only find out what their chromosomes actually say? Should they immediately divorce, change their names, and take hormones to match their chromosomes? This is not the case in the OPs post which talks about a case of Gender Dysphoria but serves to show that biology is not as black and white as you think it is. I'm rather concerned about the quality of your education if you've never heard of Disorders of Sex Development.

Op, ignore the ignorant and rude, both here and in your family.

I’m sorry your brother had such a difficult life, however there are valid arguments against gender re assignment surgery.

Jeez. Does it not occur to you that the brother likely knows far more about gender reassignment than you do?
And are you actually stating that because there are some arguments against, that it's ok for the relative to cruelly decide to call the brother by his old name & refuse to use the approriate gender pronouns?

Have you ever spent even a moment imagining what it might feel like to be so desperate for change that you are prepared to take this massive step in order to find some comfort & normalcy in your life?

Absolutely use his preferred names and pronouns. But also be aware that many people with gender dysphoria do not always feel the same way and thus he may wish to become she again later on. Many gay females also feel the need, driven by peer pressure, to come out as male rather than come out as gay. Hormone treatment and surgery is a very final step, with very severe potential side effects, and given the above it is best to take a great deal of time to consider whether it is the path to take. Please support your sibling through whatever path they take

If the OP’s brother did not have gender disphoria but instead wanted to change her (female) name to a different one would people still be saying that it’s ok for the relative to refuse to use it?

I worked with a woman who hated her name so she changed it to a different one. It was a bit odd because we all knew her as x and then she changed overnight to y, but that was her choice.

People seem to forget that gender disphoria has always existed, but that it hasn’t always been as in the open as it is now. Part of the blame for that lies with the few evangelical people who have claimed rights etc, but equally if this post had been written ten years ago the response would have been vastly different. But the truth is that MN has a definite prejudice towards all trans people, and so there are always going to be some fascists on these threads who want to stick their political oar into something which doesn’t affect them personally.

We’re not talking about the OP’s brother wanting to have shared spaces and such like at this stage, we’re talking about him wanting to change his name. In fact as a female to male transsexual he would be infinitely more vulnerable if he demanded to go into male only spaces than some of the male to female transsexuals who mn is generally against because of their wanting to go into female only spaces. But hey as long as you’ve put your bigoted points across who cares eh?

I guess yeah I'd use my sibling's new name/pronouns, but I wouldn't believe it at all. It would all just be fake.

If my parents came out as trans though, not a chance in Hell I'd use their preferred anything.

I'm rather concerned about the quality of your education if you've never heard of Disorders of Sex Development.

Yes, disorders, e.g. abnormal sexual development. And they are still either male or female, as DSDs are sex-specific. I also think the fact that they were classified and socialised as a particular sex from birth changes thigs.

What's not to say that a person is female but the construction of their body is incorrect and has male-typical parts or characteristics?

A male body can't have a female brain. No more than it can have a female liver or a female big toe. Every part of a male body is male including the brain. A male person who 'feels female' is feeling sex dysphoria, he is not actually female in his brain.

About ten years ago I posted here about a friend whose husband came out as trans and who was struggling to come to terms with it. The view at that point was very much that this man must have been struggling all his life with these feelings and that while my friend definitely needed support, it should not be forgotten how much of a struggle this must have been for her husband.

So what’s changed? Now that the trans lobby have jumped on this one and the feminist lobby have followed suit, do the apparent struggles that men and women have faced for decades suddenly become invalid?

If you meet someone who transitioned twenty years ago should they suddenly accept that they were never a man or woman even if they’ve been living as one for the past twenty years just because the attitudes of certain sectors of society have changed and turned against them now?

I don’t disagree with the view on shared spaces in many instances, but if someone transitions from one gender to another and wants to be called by a male name instead of a female one how and why does that affect others exactly?

Do you feel your sibling has realistic expectations of what the medical transitioning treatments will do for them?

I personally wouldn't consider this "living as a man", at 15 how can they know what it means to live as a man?

If somebody born male feels more comfortable living their life as a female, why can't they?

There is no way to actually live as female. The only requirement is to be female and to be living. Therefore a male can't do it.

If they prefer to be called Freda instead of Fred (or even Carole, whatever makes them happy) then surely that's their choice to make? If they choose pretty dresses over suits, so what?

That's totally fine. Names and clothes aren't female or male, they are feminine or masculine (which are socially constructed ideas) so a male who expresses himself in a feminine way should always be free to do so, but he's still a male.

If they're more at home when people refer to them as he and him, is that really such a big deal?

This is where it gets sticky. Enforced incorrect pronouns is coercive and harmful. Your relative is still female and always will be. I wouldn't call her 'she' to her face but I resent being expected to use male pronouns for female people and vice Versa. It implies belief in gender ideology which I do not share.

I don’t disagree with the view on shared spaces in many instances, but if someone transitions from one gender to another and wants to be called by a male name instead of a female one how and why does that affect others exactly?

It doesn't / didn't. Until the trans lobby started insisting that transwomen are women, that girl guides should be single gender not single sex, that male bodied people should be allowed to compete in female events etc.

Your sibling is 16?

They deserve nothing but support and love from you and their wider family and I can't see anyone here arguing any differently. But if your sibling has had an incredibly difficult, turbulent life then part of actually properly supporting them is gently encouraging them to put off making ANY physical changes until they've had a significant amount of very good quality therapy.

The changes they are looking at making are so extreme and at worst, potentially so dangerous. Are you aware a few months to years on testosterone mean your sibling will need a hysterectomy, but possibly only after they've experienced complications including pain? Have you seen the wounds women are left with on their arms if they go as far as having a 'penis' constructed? How will you feel if in 25 years time your sibling suddenly has adequate therapy, changes their mind about believing they're male and has to come to terms with having had an unnecessary mastectomy and hormone treatment? What if having a mastectomy in the first place leads to surgical complications? Every surgery has a risk.

I think you've very much posted here to try to get the feminists on this site to stop and think about individual people like your sibling no doubt because you've heard we're 'transphobic' but it's people like your sibling we're all actually extremely concerned about. No one is born in the wrong body. It isn't possible. If someone pursues this very drastic path in a quest to make themselves happy, yes there is a chance of them feeling better about their lives but equally it might do nothing to quieten the misery and you're left with having been made sterile and being on potentially harmful drugs.

If my sibling or my child was in this position I would move heaven and earth to keep them from making any physical changes to their bodies. Even breast binders do massive harm. There is support beyond transitioning even if you have to pay to access it.

You talk about the difficulties your sibling had from young age, is that not what you should be concentrating on? Even if your sibling fully transitions these problems will still be there.

I totally get the point you are making, however why should it be necessary for them to come to terms with a body/physical characteristics/even lifestyle options and choices which they would prefer not to come to terms with?

In terms of body then if they can't come to terms with it then they can't but I think it makes sense to try just because the alternative - hormones, surgery etc are dangerous and fairly limiting in that they turn a person into a lifelong medical patient. I don't think people really know just how hard these things can be both physically and mentally. There are scores of heartbreaking accounts written by young women who have reached an age when they realised they had made a mistake and damaged their previously healthy bodies.

So far as lifestyle options and living their life differently then sure why not? WHo says we have to care one jot about being typically feminine / masculine in behaviour or lifestyle? what does that even mean?

I say use the chosen name and pronouns but if you can find a way to keep them tethered to the reality that they are actually female then longer term that might just be helpful.

It is terribly difficult and finding the right balance between being accepting and understanding and going along with what could be seen as a delusion is not easy.