To expect a teacher to be qualified?

[Sunnysummer1]

My ds is about to start year 3 in September & I have just found out his teacher is not a qualified teacher. She has been an teaching assistant for a few years & is starting a teaching degree which she will do one afternoon a week. She has a teaching assistant qualification nvq, but nothing else. I have heard that she is a good teaching assistant and my ds likes her. She is supported by the deputy and will have a teaching assistant in the classroom in the morning. I’m trying not to worry but it just doesn’t sit comfortably with me as I thought teachers had to have a degree. She is fairly young; under 30 & doesn’t have children, if that makes any difference. Would it bother you?

Honestly some of the attitudes towards teachers on this thread!!! Teachers of children of all ages are highly skilled professionals and should be respected as such. No wonder schools in the UK are in such a state - if this is indicative of the thinking of a decent proportion of the general public then of course our governments will continually create policies that undermine the profession. I despair, I really do.

I worked with one TA who was very sweet; the kids loved her. But she could barely read. It wouldn’t matter what training you gave her, she wouldn’t ever be able to lead a discussion about Marxist criticism of Victorian literature. Ever. Nor, at primary, would she have been able to teach structured grammar, or Maths. Ever. So why train her as a teacher? It makes no sense. And unfortunately, unless someone has the qualifications that show they are likely to be capable of those things, by putting them in charge of a classroom, we are culpable.

Given how little my own DCs' (degree qualified) teachers seem to have been taught about e.g. phonics, one afternoon isn't enough.

Sorry I haven't read all the thread but what is it that concerns you?

Is it that the teacher hasn't got a degree or hasn't completed her teaching studies (PGCE/teaching degree).

Most private schools I know take non-qualified teachers if they think the candidate is capable. I realise this is usually if they are a strong candidate in the specialist subject though sometimes non-teaching experience. I understand they sack if the candidate doesn't prove to be adequate.

I know your DC's teacher isn't a graduate but will have more classroom experience than a newly-minted graduate.

Yes, the TA in our school who has a doctorate in geography

Super.

I have taught in a number of schools over the last twenty years and met probably hundreds of TAs. None have had a PhD.

Most have had a handful of O levels, later ones have GCSEs or A levels (but often actually haven’t got maths GCSE and have tried to resit this in later years). I’ve met some with degrees more recently who are getting some practice before doing their PGCE (brilliant experience) and in the last 5 years have met a number who are qualified (excellent) teachers who have left because teaching can be such a horrible thankless job.

Obviously, if people have met them-there must be some TAs with doctorates. I just don’t want people reading this to think this is anyway usual in state schools.

How do you expect people to get qualified?

They need to do the training, like any other profession.

I still don’t understand what route the OP means though-if the TA doesn’t have a degree, what course are they doing for one afternoon release time a week?

I know your DC's teacher isn't a graduate but will have more classroom experience than a newly-minted graduate.

So it doesn’t matter if they are not very bright?

I still don’t understand what route the OP means though-if the TA doesn’t have a degree, what course are they doing for one afternoon release time a week?
I'm wondering if it's a foundation degree in teaching and learning.
I know someone who didn't have their maths/English GCSEs and they did their TA course, then got onto a foundation degree and did a top up year.

Most private schools I know take non-qualified teachers if they think the candidate is capable. I realise this is usually if they are a strong candidate in the specialist subject though sometimes non-teaching experience.
And crucially, they've proven that they are smart enough and independent enough and driven enough to read around teaching, reflect on their practice, learn from colleagues etc.
I still think QTS should be mandatory, even if it means people like that do an assessment only route.

My dchave had some amazing reachers and some awful ones however the TAs, without exception, have been fantastic. I imagine she has lots of experience plus enthusiasm and will be out to prove herself so will work super hard. She will be being supervised by the deputy head. I think under 30s without children will prove to be a positive as she will have more time for prep etc that teachers seem to have to do in their own time without divided loyalties. I think you should give her a chance and address any problems as they arise with the deputy head. I may be slightly biased as dd has an awful teacher this year and the TA has taught her far more things than teacher despite not actually being the one teaching the class.

She will be being supervised by the deputy head.

This is meaningless. It’s just a way of letting unqualified people into classrooms. The deputy head, if he or she had time for supervising an unqualified member of staff without a degree adequately, could teach the class themselves.

Unfortunately the endless chipping away at the profession and the slashing of school budgets means that more and more unqualified teachers are being employed. At least in this case the teacher knows the school and has been in the classroom. We employ cover supervisors - supposed to be short term cover, but one ended up teaching Science for a term despite only having a GCSE in it

I think the point here is the experience. She hasn't just walked in off the street with no qualifications. She will have experience of managing the class which an nqt may not have in comparison, she will be supported by teachers and the school mudtvthink she is worth investing in to be supporting her. As a pp said be cautiously optimistic!

How do you know this information OP?

A “teaching degree” - as in a BA in Education is a full time 3 year course, that you need A’levels (or possibly equivalent quakes, but I’d doubt it) to complete - doing it a day a week is going to take eleventy four years* to do.

If, however, she does have a degree already - that she did before her nvq maybe? - then she could, as others have mentioned, be doing a school centred route into QTS. They are a day a week usually - mine certainly was- and they are done in a year.

I’m curious about how you know her academic qualifications so intimately.

*Full disclosure, I’m not a maths teacher, so figures are approximate

I actually thought you were conceding that her being young and not having children was at least in her favour! In my experience young childless teachers are the ones who have all the time required for after school planning/marking etc and devote their whole lives to their class. This is diluted somewhat when your own children arrive.

Everyone has to learn somewhere. If she’s been a TA she will know the children know the school and they will supervise her usually when a teacher is training they have a qualified teacher just in the class working but monitoring as well. I’d rather that than a complete stranger who my child will have to get to know...

Hercule,

I might have misread the OP but didn't read anything in the post that said the TA wasn't bright. We can both judge whether this is likely.

I don't think anything in my post said TAs wouldn't be 'bright' nor that it would be OK if they weren't bright.

I suppose, as in fedup's post above yours, there may be some TAs who are 'bright' and probably more who are less 'bright' than a fresh graduate (if you believe in generalised as opposed to domain-specific intelligence or brightness).

That said, the entry process for the in-work/part-time/work-based teacher training the TA will be doing would (hopefully) have assessed the TA's capability for successfully completing their studies and being an effective teacher.

I expect the population of TAs will, on average, be less academic than teaching graduates but will be a spread that includes some who are 'bright' but whose family circumstances or life events will have meant that didn't proceed through a standard professional 'school-university-career path'.

I wonder how long it will be before the QTS is scrapped completely? If there is no point in having it, and so many people on here seem to think that if you are a really ‘nice person’ and have been in a classroom for a bit recently, that should do you.

So, get rid of the course if anyone can do it?

Get rid of the degree. What about A levels or should we just need maths and English GCSEs. Or does that cut too many people out?

Do we need an age limit? Should you be 16? 18?

I expect the pay could go down massively as anyone could do it which would save a few quid! I can imagine queues of school mums and dads who didn’t have a happy or successful education fancying having a go as it fits so well in with having the children.

I would love to hear some of the comments from parents on Mumsnet about the spelling/grammar from their child’s class teacher in the book bag then!

Jesus no wonder the UK education system is gone to shit!!
In Ireland you can only teach if you are a teacher. You must have completed a four year teaching degree and then a year being assessed and observed etc to get qualified status. If you train abroad and and want to teach here then you have to have your qualifications vetted and register to even start.
Also fwiw when I did my A level equivalent in Ireland our results could be out of 600 points. You needed 590-600 to do medicine and 495 to do primary teaching. The top 5% of the country gets over 450.

What I don't understand is the amount of people who seem to take the line 'teacher training isn't important because my child had a bad teacher one year and the TA helped them learn'.

They are two totally different jobs!

Why don't we allow maternity care assistants to do deliveries on their own, after all they might have been in hospitals a bit longer than a qualified midwife and my friend once had a midwife who wasn't sympathetic.

Or a care assistant doing the job of a nurse because it doesn't really matter that the nurse needs a degree, it's all about caring for people.

In fact, why have chartered accountants when someone who does finance admin can still add up.

It shows how little people value the training & expertise of some professions.

She will have experience of managing the class which an nqt may not have in comparison,
Until you get to the end of primary school, that's not the bulk of the job. It's child development, how do children learn things and what to do if they aren't. How they make friends and how to help them. Etc.
But as I say, even the current degree or PGCE training doesn't seem to cover this.

might have misread the OP but didn't read anything in the post that said the TA wasn't bright. We can both judge whether this is likely.

This is the whole point, though, isn’t it? By letting them teach on the off chance they are smart enough, we are gambling with children’s education. What is wrong with having an academic standard that a person who wants to teach others academic material has to have met before they are allowed to do so? I know bright people with no GCSEs, A Levels or degree; I am not advocating for people being able to start practising medicine without those qualifications, just because I know some people without them who are clever.

As a Scottish teacher I find it amazing what goes on down south in teaching. Never in a million years would a PSA (TA) be allowed to cover a class, never mind take one for a year!

I think the point here is the experience. She hasn't just walked in off the street with no qualifications.

Yes, she has. If she doesn’t have English and Maths GCSE at a pass, A Levels (or equivalents) and a relevant degree, she has done precisely that.

My dchave had some amazing reachers and some awful ones however the TAs, without exception, have been fantastic.

The TAs have been fantastic, as TAs. You do know the whole job of a teacher is actually different and encompasses a whole lot more.

I’ve been treated by some excellent doctors and nurses who were fantastic too. I bet some of them could be great doctors.

I’d want them to train first-you know, following the correct medical training program, before they came anyone near me with a prescription pad or a scalpel.

She will be being supervised by the deputy head.

This is bullshit that it will actually happen. If the deputy head actually had time to do this-she’d be in the class herself.

I’m curious about how you know her academic qualifications so intimately.

I still suspect a reverse. I wonder if OP is the TA, canvassing parents’ views anonymously.

I'm not so worried about an experienced TA being in charge of the class (they already do enough filling in), as the lack of basic spelling, grammar and maths that some people working in schools appear you have -which, rightly or wrongly, really worries me (I have the same concerns about nurseries).