To expect a teacher to be qualified?

[Sunnysummer1]

My ds is about to start year 3 in September & I have just found out his teacher is not a qualified teacher. She has been an teaching assistant for a few years & is starting a teaching degree which she will do one afternoon a week. She has a teaching assistant qualification nvq, but nothing else. I have heard that she is a good teaching assistant and my ds likes her. She is supported by the deputy and will have a teaching assistant in the classroom in the morning. I’m trying not to worry but it just doesn’t sit comfortably with me as I thought teachers had to have a degree. She is fairly young; under 30 & doesn’t have children, if that makes any difference. Would it bother you?

I'm not so worried about an experienced TA being in charge of the class (they already do enough filling in), as the lack of basic spelling, grammar and maths that some people working in schools appear you have -which, rightly or wrongly, really worries me (I have the same concerns about nurseries).

But if you don’t ask for qualifications in these things, those problems will continue. Very few people spell flawlessly, but there is a correlation between those who spell reasonably well and those with formal qualifications.

ThanksItHasPockets
That's a very good point.

If it is a reverse then this would be my advice:
Do you want to teach? Or is this a situation where school is learning on a TA to take on more responsibility?
Are you fully aware that TAs support teaching and learning under the direction of a teacher and how that differs from being 100% accountable for the progress and wellbeing of a class?
In the absence of an undergraduate degree (I assume as it wasn't mentioned), how do you know you have the academic ability for the step up?
What is the course for 1 afternoon a week? Does it actually give you QTS or is it a foundation degree/HLTA status style course?
Are you aware that work based routes like this very rarely leave the trainee supported or academically challenged (even with graduate entry)? More often than not they are abandoned on their own, given shared planning to middle through and as long as they tick school boxes then they'll pass, regardless of whether they are a good teacher. Is this the foundation you'd want for your career, because in my experience those trainees find it much harder to get employment later as they are simply not as strong as other trainees.

If you do actually want to teach, then I would advise doing a part time degree in a subject of your choice and then a teacher training route, or see if there is a local BEd/ BA with QTS route available. You only get one start to a new career and I would be selfish and put your needs as an aspiring teacher first because it's the foundations of your new career. Don't get pushed into a less good route because it saves the school money.

I agree that the school who is putting a TA through this isn’t being supportive and kind; they are taking the piss and using the TA to get a cheap teacher.

Teaching is a profession for which you need a degree. It doesn’t matter if you have a TA with an IQ of a million, who is great with the kids, the minute you waive that requirement for them you are opening the door to much, much lesser candidates and devaluing the profession.

the minute you waive that requirement for them you are opening the door to much, much lesser candidates and devaluing the profession.

Absolutely-this is the crux of the matter.

If you remove the need to have a degree or teaching qualification, or even A levels, the calibre of entrants to the job (presumably not profession) will be irrevocably altered.

And the government failed ideas over the last few years haven’t helped. What’s there been?

-Troops to teachers
-Pensioners back in the classroom
-Parachuting private school teachers into inner-city schools (were there others?)

Even allowing unqualified teachers in academies hasn’t done anything to solve the recruitment and retention crisis. This suggests that despite anecdotal evidence that ‘my mate has a doctorate from Cambridge and would be a brilliant teacher’ that actually there aren’t a glut of potentially superb teachers out there with degrees who-for some inexplicable reason-just can’t do a one year teacher training course like the rest of us.

I would love to do an AIBU poll to se if people think having the teaching qualification should be scrapped. I suspect it wouldn’t be allowed as it’s a TAAT but also I reckon the results would probably depress me anyway.

Most of the TAs in our school have nvq level 3 assisting teaching and learning. Our HLTAs cover PPA and staff absences but are qualified to do so. One of our HLTAs (also has a degree) has been teaching alongside a qualified teacher this year during her training to teach, with heavy support from the head and executive head and observations galore from her university, it's really full on and I'm wondering if someone who is only educated to nvq3 level could cope with that. Surely the person you are talking about has a degree and then did a nvq 3 that you don't know about?
In fact I have a degree and an nvq 3 but am in no position to teach full time despite having more experience in the classroom and in some cases more knowledge than my NQT in our class.

I would love to do an AIBU poll to se if people think having the teaching qualification should be scrapped. I suspect it wouldn’t be allowed as it’s a TAAT but also I reckon the results would probably depress me anyway.

No, it wouldn’t be. It wouldn’t be to discuss this thread, but to get a sense of how many people would be okay with pretty much anybody teaching their children.

I would love to do an AIBU poll to se if people think having the teaching qualification should be scrapped. I suspect it wouldn’t be allowed as it’s a TAAT but also I reckon the results would probably depress me anyway
Given there is a proportion of mumsnet who think having gone to school themselves makes them an expert on every element of school leadership from marking to behaviour management, pastoral support to whole school policy, I think it would just turn into a teacher bashing thread.
And the teacehrs will sit back and wonder why there could possibly be a retention crisis.

Also fwiw to even get into university in Ireland you have to pass (a level equivalent) English, Irish and maths (and up until last year a foreign language also) if you failed one you didn’t get into university.

She’s doing a teaching degree one day a week - student teachers studying for PGCE normally have 10 weeks in college then 2 teaching placements. Some go through other schemes which are purely work based training. I’ve never met a teacher who qualified before entering the classroom.

Just seems to me that instead of the 10 weeks at the beginning it’s spread out over the year. She already has experience and as most secondary schools I’ve worked in have 10+ student teachers at any time this won’t be the last time they are taught by a student teacher. She’ll also have a mentor in school and regular meets, observations to ensure she is meeting standards, and the support of a TA, as well as her own TA experience.

littlegoth OP has clarified that the TA does not have an undergraduate degree. Her training route is not comparable to graduates on postgraduate teacher training routes, whether employment or university based.

She’ll also have a mentor in school and regular meets, observations to ensure she is meeting standards,

No guarantee of this whatsoever as she is not following a proper training route.

Entirely possible she’ll be dumped in the classroom and expected to get on with it.

She’s doing a teaching degree one day a week

BUT SHE HASN’T GOT A DEGREE!!

Sorry, did I shout?

I think the OP needs to come back and give more information or else people might start to think this thread is just made up.

Entirely possible she’ll be dumped in the classroom and expected to get on with it.

Yup. I know lots of trainee teachers who have had to get their course provider to have strong words with the Head, because mentor meetings could only be scheduled in the one hour the mentor had free per week, and that time was being eaten into by a million other things, so with the best will in the world, the trainee was being hung out to dry.

Yes, it really bothers and worries me. There’s a recruitment and retention crisis in education, and many schools simply can’t fill vacancies with a qualified teacher. Or possibly their budget cannot stretch to a qualified teacher. It really worries me. If I had to have an operation, I’d not be happy that recruitment/budget issues meant the porter would be performing the operation (no matter how experienced the porter was).

I’ve known some amazing TAs professionaly. But they do not have the same pedagogical skills as a qualified teacher. Anyone who has worked in a school can tel you an anecdotal story about an experienced TA who could cover a lesson better than a qualified supply teacher, or NQT. But the fact is that they are not qualified to enable progress of a whole class over an academic year.

It's a form of teacher training where you train on the job. I doubt the school are "putting her through it" she's probably paying for it herself and they are letting her do her use the class for her experience. It's a valid form of teacher training. The school will keep a close eye on her as they do with any trainee. They won't let their results suffer.

It's a valid form of teacher training.

How do you know?

I don’t believe there is a valid form of part time teacher training you can do with only an NVQ3 and no degree.

To answer the OP's question, yes you should be able to assume your child's teacher is qualified.

Sadly, there are many, many unqualified people working as teachers at the moment.

Many are not even studying for a qualification. They are just introduced as 'teacher' and parents are not told that this teacher is not even a graduate.

This happened to me at my children's first school.

One day I was chatting to the teacher and she mentioned an area where she had grown up. It was the same place where I had been to university. I asked her if she had gone to the university there too.

She said she hadn't been to university at all and was working as an unqualified teacher.

For some reason, this piece of information had not been included in the school prospectus.

They won't let their results suffer.

So they will either put inappropriate pressure on her (risking her crashing and burning) to achieve results she isn’t qualified to achieve, or they will do the job for her, or, most likely - Y3 - they will put her in charge of a lower profile class and ignore the knock on effects in Y4, whereupon the gap will have to be made up by someone who is qualified.

But if you don’t ask for qualifications in these things, those problems will continue. Very few people spell flawlessly, but there is a correlation between those who spell reasonably well and those with formal qualifications.

I don't disagree, but sadly I think the horse has bolted.

I want to recognise that there are some brilliant TAs that would make brilliant teachers, but I also know of TAs who want me to sympathise with them about how hard it is to pass their L2 maths exam.

A school local to me will have one class shared by HT and TA because they can't afford an actual class teacher - until the funding situation means that schools can afford well-qualified staff, it's only going to get worse.

Bottledate

Me too. I was talking with a person I presumed to be a qualified teacher at my school, and she told me she was sitting her English GCSE this May (this was in April) and did I think she needed to read the books?

More a case of “What the hell are you doing teaching without an English GCSE?!”

It would bother me enough to look for a new school. I wouldn’t home educate my child as I’m not a qualified teacher so wouldn’t use a school that didn’t employ qualified class teachers.

I wouldn’t worry - teachers have to start their training somewhere and if she’s been a TA the she will have picked things up that others in her position would learn. Support from the Dep Head means there’s no wiggle room for her to get things wrong, she’ll be observed at least once a week (I also imagine her TA will be reporting back on her) and she’ll have a uni supervisor that will also come in to observe her. If she is unfit for the role she will be binned by Xmas.

People make the move into teaching having worked in completely unrelated sectors and are very successful.

Her youth will mean she’s more likely to be dynamic, energetic and more willing to learn from her experiences.

The fact that she has no kids means nothing - I had been teaching for 10yrs before I had my DD. If anything it makes you more cautious because it’s other people’s children you’re caring for!

It’s probably better her dealing with Y3 than starting with the very young ones because (I imagine!) they will need an entirely different kind of care (toilet training etc.) whereas Y3 they have some sort of semblance of being “taught”.

Please give her a chance and be open minded; she will be nervous enough as it is without parents doubting her every move. Everyone has to start somewhere!

Please give her a chance and be open minded; she will be nervous enough as it is without parents doubting her every move. Everyone has to start somewhere!

Would you say that to someone holding a surgical knife over you, after they told you they had no surgical qualification but did have youth and enthusiasm?

wrong, she’ll be observed at least once a week (I also imagine her TA will be reporting back on her)

Informed on by your TA-that’s a brilliant way to determine your success!

This is happening because of poor funding and lack of support from the government.

Think carefully about who you vote for at the next general election. The Tories have ruined the schooling system for both the staff and children.

She may be an exceptional teacher but at the end of the day she'll be paid less for doing the same job as the teachers. And I'd be sceptical about how much support the deputy will be able to offer.