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Ann Widdecombe should apologise

116 replies

Songsofexperience · 04/07/2019 15:34

Her ludicrous speech comparing EU membership to slavery is a spit in the face of every descendant of actual slaves. Shame on her.

OP posts:
Nearlythere1 · 04/07/2019 21:26

@Unfinishedkitchen hahahaha. Okaaay....

Why would I be silent on the matter if I believe in free speech?

I think your reply was a bit weird and unhinged, other than that, you can say what you like to me! I'm also in possession of this unique thing called perspective, and i'm not going to cry over naughty words on the net, or a distasteful metaphor by a politician.

Unfinishedkitchen · 04/07/2019 21:26

...and this is the problem we now have. People who think ‘touching nerves’ and winding our allies up is something to celebrate. I despair at how insane my country has become. I genuinely thought this behaviour was the preserve of Americans in trailer parks who continually vote against their interests. The dumbing down of our country has now gone next level.

Unfinishedkitchen · 04/07/2019 21:31

@Nearlythere1 so you did reply as I knew you would and called me ‘unhinged’ suggesting to me that I got to you and my words did matter. The free speech at all costs types are always upset when the speech is turned in their direction. Funny that.

BertrandRussell · 04/07/2019 21:32

“Clearly touched a nerve”

AKA “I have said something ducking stupid and you responded to it”

BertrandRussell · 04/07/2019 21:32

*fucking

Nearlythere1 · 04/07/2019 21:35

No, I called you unhinged because it was an unhinged response.

And i'm still unclear as to why you think I shouldnt have replied? Do think that free speech means I cant reply to what you say? I dont think it works like that...

I didn't tell you to shut up, or that you shouldn't have said what you said, and I'm certainly not upset.

Can you please put your point in one clear sentence? Honestly I'm struggling to craft a reply.

lakemountain · 04/07/2019 21:35

*No nerve touched here

I just thought it was a fucking stupid thing to say grin

Quite obviously we are not slaves* which is why she used it as a comparison you great big dummy

Nearlythere1 · 04/07/2019 21:36

@BertrandRussell agreed

itwaseverthus · 04/07/2019 21:39

I think Ann was saying the majoriy who voted to leave view the EU as oppressors and referenced a seemingly undemocratic vote taken the day before. I don't know which vote she was speaking off, find the EU too dull to watch footage but meh, she is free to draw the analogy in my opinion.

Cinammoncake · 04/07/2019 21:40

touched a nerve?

no.

'Free speech' doesn't extend to say, knocking on your neighbours door and calling them a fat cunt, for example. Seems quite obvious to me.

Cyberworrier · 04/07/2019 21:40

As another thread says, makes some of us ashamed to be British. This and the facing away during Ode to Joy. If children did this at school, we’d tell them about respect and how to make their point without descending into silly, petty behaviour. Shame on them.
I am disgusted by someone like her making glib comparisons to colonialism and slavery, she should really know better. Shows she knows sweet F A all about history.

Thisismadness · 04/07/2019 21:44

She was a horrible Tory mp so no surprise that’s she’s a horrible brexit party mep. Who’s surprised. It was a hideously tone deaf comment at best, massively offensive in my view.

Buddytheelf85 · 04/07/2019 21:45

Bunch of chairman mao's in the making you lot.

Grin

I don’t think Chairman Mao started out by saying that someone should apologise for an inaccurate, embarrassing and offensive remark.

Cinammoncake · 04/07/2019 21:47

I think Ann was saying the majoriy who voted to leave view the EU as oppressors and referenced a seemingly undemocratic vote taken the day before. I don't know which vote she was speaking off, find the EU too dull to watch footage but meh, she is free to draw the analogy in my opinion.

Think back to 2015 or before that, let's say 2005. Did the majority of the country view the EU as oppressors? Hmm

Not until hatred and fear was stirred up by Farage and the far right, and the Tories sought to appease them and pursue their own far right agenda into the bargain. A lot who voted 'leave' did so as a 'protest vote' in 2016 (although probably now hardline brexiters - cognitive dissonance)

The election in question was one where the Brexit party had no allies so couldn't influence it that much, yet again throwing toys out the pram.

Find the EU too dull to watch footage? So you just accept this nonsensical rude outburst without thinking about the issue any further.

Amara123 · 04/07/2019 21:50

Brexiteers live in this alternate universe where Britain is a big victim and the EU have been bullying them for years, while at the same time believing Britain is a massive superpower and will be able to do amazing quick trade deals all over the place. Except for the deal with the EU, can't seem to play with the big boys then!

Honestly their heads must hurt from the effort of holding so many opposing delusions simultaneously!Confused

VivienneHolt · 04/07/2019 21:51

You do all know that's what the western concept of free speech is base dont you?

Just because you think restrictions on speech work in your favour now doesnt mean they always will. Hence why you protect it at all cost, and at all times.

Bunch of chairman mao's in the making you lot.

Dear God, this is embarrassing for you. If you’re going to set yourself up as an exemplar of free speech, you might start by learning the first bloody thing about it...

Nearlythere1 · 04/07/2019 21:51

@Cinnammon 'Free speech' doesn't extend to say, knocking on your neighbours door and calling them a fat cunt, for example. Seems quite obvious to me.

Actually, it does. Can you point to the law that says you can't? If you made a habit of it and were also threatening violence it would be a different matter.

@Buddytheelf85 I don’t think Chairman Mao started out by saying that someone should apologise for an inaccurate, embarrassing and offensive remark.

You know what, you're right, he wouldnt demand an apology, he would just execute them for their words instead.

Nearlythere1 · 04/07/2019 21:52

Go on then @VivienneHolt explain it to me

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 04/07/2019 21:52

Well aware it was a comparison thanks lake

But it was a stupid fucking comparison

Outnumb3red · 04/07/2019 21:57

The whole speech was ludicrous. Along side the slavery comment was the 'colonies against the empire'. We were the empire everyone wanted free from ffs. It's beyond parody.
The EU aren't forcing us to stay. I'm pretty sure most in that room would rather we were already gone. The reason we are still a member is due the current fuckwits trying to extrapolate us.

Cinammoncake · 04/07/2019 21:57

@Cinnammon 'Free speech' doesn't extend to say, knocking on your neighbours door and calling them a fat cunt, for example. Seems quite obvious to me.

Actually, it does. Can you point to the law that says you can't? If you made a habit of it and were also threatening violence it would be a different matter.

I'm saying it's an example of where acceptable 'free speech' might end for most people, not that it's illegal.
No doubt the Brexit party would be outraged (and play their usual victim card) if someone had replied that they were a bunch of bigoted cunts, but thankfully nobody else in there was as rude or obnoxious.

Buddytheelf85 · 04/07/2019 22:08

You know what, you're right, he wouldnt demand an apology, he would just execute them for their words instead.

Yes, exactly. I don’t think anyone on this thread has suggested executing Ann Widdecombe for her words. So calling posters ‘a bunch of Chairman Maos in the making’ was a fairly absurd comparison.

VivienneHolt · 04/07/2019 22:17

Well, since you asked so nicely.

You do all know that's what the western concept of free speech is base dont you?

The Western concept of free speech is not defending to the death everyone’s right to say whatever the fuck they want. It has never been this.

Free Speech means nothing more and nothing less than the fact that the government and public institutions are not allowed to censor you, or imprison or otherwise punish you, for what you say (save in particular circumstances, discussed below).

It doesn’t mean that individuals or private institutions have to listen to you. It doesn’t mean people aren’t allowed to say ‘that was a stupid and bigoted comment and you should apologise’. It doesn’t mean you can’t be fired for holding opinions deemed to be unacceptable by your employer. It doesn’t mean you can’t be banned from speaking in private venues.

It offers you no absolute protection to say whatever you like without facing consequences. This has never been a concept in western society. It wasn’t even a rule at the time that Evelyn Beatrice Hall came up with that quote. It was simply a pithy phrase she used to describe a particular belief system.

Just because you think restrictions on speech work in your favour now doesnt mean they always will. Hence why you protect it at all cost, and at all times.

The idiocy of this paragraph is truly unparalleled and I can only commend you for that.

Restrictions on free speech are rife in this country. I’m not allowed to print a letter in a national newspaper falsely accusing you of kicking swans every Sunday in the park. A hate preacher isn’t allowed to stand on a soap box every Sunday and tell the gathered crowds that they should go forth and punch every member of a different faith whom they meet. I can’t incite a riot, I can’t publicly perpetrate obscenity, I can’t share government secrets and I can’t slander my boss. These are all perfectly legitimate restrictions of my right to free speech.

The right to free speech isn’t absolute. It is curtailed wherever it butts up against other people’s rights - rights to safety, rights to not be harassed, rights to not have violence incited against them, rights to be protected from gross offences to the prevailing public morality of the time. All of these rights have been deemed more important than the right to free speech. That is why your assertion that the right to free speech should be protected at all costs and at all times is so patently absurd. Would you really choose to protect a hate preacher employing his right of free speech to incite his devotees to murder children over the right of those children to not be murdered? Of course you wouldn’t.

Nobody on this thread is suggesting Widdecombe should be imprisoned for her comments. That would clearly be a violation of her right to free speech. But free speech doesn’t mean freedom from consequences, and if she says something which another person finds idiotic, offensive, narrow minded and absurd, there is no reason at all why that person shouldn’t share their view, and suggest that she should apologise. And there’s no reason why you shouldn’t think critically about what she has said and your response to it, instead of attempting to shut down any criticism of her words by an appeal to a phrase as meaningless and empty as the one you employed.

Buddytheelf85 · 04/07/2019 22:23

Actually, it does. Can you point to the law that says you can't? If you made a habit of it and were also threatening violence it would be a different matter.

But that’s the point. You can knock on your neighbour’s door and call them a fat cunt. But you can’t expect to do that without a reaction and social consequences. Your neighbour is likely to be deeply offended and request an apology from you. You can’t just negate that inevitable consequence of your actions by squealing ‘free speech’!

People are challenging AW’s remarks on the basis that they were ignorant, foolish and embarrassing. You are saying that anyone who does that is a Chairman Mao in the making - i.e. they shouldn’t do that because of AW’s right to ‘free speech’.

But firstly, ‘free speech’ doesn’t mean ‘the right to spout utter nonsense without challenge or consequence’. And secondly, everyone has an equal right to ‘free speech’, meaning that they can challenge idiotic comments when they hear them.

SrSteveOskowski · 04/07/2019 22:44

I can't hear the words Ann Widdecombe without thinking of that Victoria Wood sketch .....
Can't link on the phone, but it's on YouTube

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