It’s inevitable that something awful will happen to my son

[MelaniaPump]

My DS is 18. His mental health has been declining for the past two years. Last year he was arrested twice for assault. The second time was pretty bad and he could have been facing a manslaughter charge but he (and victim) were “lucky”. Somehow he got away with it.
He assaulted my husband a number of times whilst living here and just before Christmas he attempted suicide in a very violent manner - ended up surrounded by police cars and ambulances in a public place and was then rushes to hospital where he had to have emergency surgery to repair the damage. He was then detained under mental health act and held in secure unit for 3 weeks. They let him out with no proper assessment. He did not engage with community health services, missed appointments and has now been discharged.

Long story short, I couldn’t have him living at home anymore. He’s violent and frightening. My own mental health was rapidly declining and i almost lost my job.

He’s now living independently. He got a job and was doing well for ages but now it’s all happening again. He keeps having violent outbursts and depressive episodes and has now hurt his girlfriend because she broke up with him following a bad dream (!!??)

I don’t know what to do. I can’t have him back here. He doesn’t engage with MH services ... I’m starting to think it’s inevitable that he will end up in prison or worse.

I'm glad his victim was lucky !
I'm sure their family do not feel as lucky as you that their child wasn't a victim of manslaughter . I would assume they would be worried that a violent person is still out and about and by the sound of it is very close to committing another act of violence.
Having said that it must be a great worry to you having to see your son go through this. Could you possibly go with him to a &e or to an appointment for a mh assessment ? Is he on any medication ? Does he have a social worker ?

Let me re-phrase @NCforanonymity. Prison is the best place for him, to protect innocent members of society. This guy nearly killed someone, is violent to his girlfriend, has regular outbursts towards other people. How do you not see that prison is the right place for someone like that? I'm sure that, if it were someone who you care about who gets badly hurt the next time he has a bad day, you'd be a bit grumpy that he hadn't been taken off the streets earlier.

Can social services help or advise? Could he be assigned a social worker from the mental health team?

I don't know, just wondering.

It wasn’t a child he attacked, it was a Middle aged man

I think the middle aged man would have had a parent , is what the pp was describing. I feel for you OP. But if I were you I'dtry back off. He's an adult, and if hes unwilling to engage and is a danger to you and others then theres nothing you can do until he changes this himself.

Girlfriend needs to report to police
Enough reports he might get arrested tgen helped(But he has to engage or sectioned)
Keep reporting

This is so sad, the reality is in the UK we're criminalising people who have mental health problems and suffer psychotic episodes instead of helping them. 'care in the community ' means leaving vulnerable people to struggle and drown. Often taking others with them.

In my small area we've had 3 murders of family members from people who the MH team have refused to see. One of them was discovered crouched on the beach with a pipe up his arse telling people he was going to murder his mum and sister. He was sent home. And did exactly that. As a family we've experienced similar and were left to deal with a dangerous person during a psychotic episode. He actually was sectioned ........but received no follow up care.

I honestly don't know the answer op. I don't blame you for not having him home, you need to repeatedly log your concerns and make agencies aware in the hope so someone listens eventually.

I would call social services for advice.

Your son is very unwell and despite what pp say, his refusal to engage with services is likely part of his illness.

He really needs a proper intervention and assessment. So far the system has failed to provide this.

Now that he has hurt someone again they may be willing to section him again. Unfortunately action is often not taken to help people like your son until something awful happens, like someone getting hurt.

This is far too much for you to handle yourself. Call social services and the crisis team for advice as he is a danger to others and himself.

My sympathies OP, I have been in the same situation with DS1. And to those who don't believe he got sent away from A&E, it definitely happens. MH provision is shite.

3 years ago my DS took himself to A&E because he heard voices telling him to kill. He couldn't remember the previous 3 days...

He was there a couple hours, the psychiatrist rang me, they told me they would refer him...and let him go...he rang me and I went to pick him up, took him for a meal then he refused to come home as he felt it was safer for us and him to stay out. There was no referral either, I complained and pointed out that I would create merry hell if it became a 'lessons will be learned' situation!

It has been a roller coaster since he was 16, he is now 31. Poor Mental Health, criminal behaviour, destructive behaviours, poor life decisions, fathering kids with a equally dysfunctional woman who is manipulative and uses the kids as a weapon to hurt him. Provoking him knowing if he reacts he is likely to go over the edge(whole thread there)

I still dread phone calls. He has been ok about 18 months now.even though ex pushes hard to trigger him I take nothing for granted though.

No advice but my thoughts are with you.

Prison is the best place for him, to protect innocent members of society.

But, he has to do something bad for him to go to prison - surely there should be the ability to intervene before that point. The young man sounds in crisis. Ideally he should be able to get help immediately, these things don't go away by having to wait, they get worse. To compound the problem, by not being seen immediately the person in crisis stops engaging with what help is available because it takes too long.

I don't know what the answer is - probably the young man will either end up in prison or will take their own life. I would rather society acted to help prevent either of these outcomes but that would mean better provisioned and faster acting mental health and social services - neither of which we have.

And for people suggesting the ops soon was refused assesment despite saying he was going to hurt someone ?

Sadly that's very normal. I've experienced this with a family member, 24 hours later they were back on the streets without even being admitted. Unless you have tried to engage with MH services in the UK you really have no clue how bad things are.

And often masking is part of the illness. They don't realise what they're doing when they're manic. It isn't them in there.

Get him seen privately asap nhs wait times are LONG. he needs a diagnosis so he can get correct treatment. He needs to understand why he is feeling angry and find someone he can trust to talk to and work it all out.
Get him thinking about his interests and maybe volunteering or getting a job where he helps people? He must be good at something, try to encourage him. yes he has been violent but he needs help.

Prison is the best place for him

No it isnt. Its the best/only place for society to put him to keep others safe but it shouldn't be.

A system that relies on seriously mentally ill people to recognise their own illness and seek help and treatment for it despite frequent knock backs (the a&e story is all to common) and then criminalises them is not a good system.

Sounds like he needs to be referred to the assertive outreach team. They support patients who find it difficult to work with CMHTs. Unfortunately due to all the cuts some areas do not have them anymore.

rethink.org/advice-and-information/living-with-mental-illness/treatment-and-support/assertive-outreach-teams/

As someone said it isnt him in there, it is the illness...which ever one he is suffering from yet to be determined. Some people cannot just pull themselves together nor can they control how they act if suffering mh issues.

Yes services are extremely bad now. Family and their support is probably the best way for most. Finding a good psychiatrist and a supportive team is hard

Sadly it doesn’t surprise me that A&E sent your son away because they were too busy. I work for a small community counselling agency based about half a mile from a busy London A&E. I have lost count of the number of desperate patients appear at our reception having been sent to us by A&E. The service we offer is completely unsuitable for desperate, suicidal, violent or mentally ill patients so often all we can do is give them a letter explaining this and send them back to their GP or A&E. This passing from pillar to post is demoralising for everyone concerned and must be very harmful to an already unwell person. Mental Health services in the U.K. are dangerously underfunded and overwhelmed.

I feel for you OP. I’ve experienced the difficulties you describe professionally and as a parent, desperately trying to get my child to engage with services. IMO All you can do is keep encouraging your son to engage whilst also taking care of your own physical safety and mental health.

services are extremely bad now

And I'm not sure they've ever been good - without getting too political I wish a government of any flavour had the balls to actually, root and branch, sort out healthcare in this country.

He needs help. He could be sectioned temporarily in a mental health hospital and receive much needed care . Don’t let that frighten you it will help him b monitored and treated for psychosis

I think you should go to police tell them u think he is danger to the public and needs sectioning temporarily until he is diagnosed and treated.

This way you can ensure nothing irreversible happens. He will forgive u once treated since he agrees he might do something bad.

Sounds like he's having manic episodes. Can you get him to his GP?

This is so sad to read, it really is.
Yes he might hurt someone else, but equally he might kill himself, both of which would be further tragedies that could be laid at the door of failing Mental Health Services in the UK.

I also well believe the A&E story - they don't have the time or resources to deal with him, because of budget cuts and lack of staff in the MH services.

It fucking sucks. And yes chances are someone will be badly hurt because of his mental illness, and because there aren't enough resources to treat him proactively, only react to when things get REALLY bad.

I'm so sorry OP - what a shit situation

Sectioning doesnt work in the way that people in this thread seem to think it does.

Certainly the following is true in my area:

All referrals to mental health community team rely on a patient engaging and chosing to work with services. Hence in my area other people eg family members can not refer on their behalf. They can also only intervene if a patient is open to their team ie calling with concerns will be redirected to the appropriate services or result in the advice of call the police or go to a+e

Please take him to a+e or gp for assesment. They can then make referrals to crisis or for a mental health act assessment (our crisis team does not accept self referrals, yours may). A+e can also if needed section someone for a brief couple of hours until the full assesment is carried out

Police can only hold under their section powers for 72 hours (until the assesment can take place) they can only do this if the person is in a public space. Within a house it would need a court warrant. In our area the police have a mental health nurse that can come out with them and help refer to correct teams etc

Sectioning can only be used in the context of a clear mental health crisis. It can not be used because someone is voilent alone. Do you believe him to be psychotic or suicidal? It also must be the least restrictive option so if someone consents to going to hospital or could be tried with support from the crisis team then this will have to be tried first.

I realise its not ideal but its certainly how the local system to me works. Theres a huge gap between when someone should be engaging with a mental health team but wont, and when mental health care can be forced on them.

Loads of people with poor mental health and in prison have been found to have ADHD. Clearly I have no idea if he does but untreated it can be pretty bad. Have a look at the symptoms online. Medication can often be life changing. Sadly it often comes with other issues too. Depressing reading as my eldest has it but is treated so hopefully will benefit as she gets older.

Familyofaliens A&E turning him away is VERY likely! Do you have any experience of MH services?

OP I speak as someone with a father who has paranoid schizophrenia. I escorted him to A&E when he was delusional, convinced my mum was plotting against him and he needed to defend himself. He was very unwell at this point but very very fortunate to recognise he was unwell and wanted help. He WANTED to be admitted to hospital so they could sort out his medication. In A&E they moved him to a side room because he was so agitated they were concerned about his behaviour. We waited ages to see a Dr, I gave Dr a full breakdown of his history and their response was to tell him to go home watch tv, take a bath and try to relax!! I DEMANDED to see a psychiatrist, A&E always has one on-call, when the psychiatrist arrived they also told him to go home because there wasn't any beds available . At this point I told the psychiatrist I had noted her name and would hold her personally responsible if he left that hospital and harmed himself, my mum or anyone else. It was an awful position to put her in but I had to, I couldn't have him leave the hospital. She told me to wait, she left the room, and came back 10 minutes later and confirmed they had a bed for him in a local psychiatric hospital. We went straight there.

OP I really feel for you. Unfortunately you will have to take control of the situation because he isn't well enough to. Try every avenue, call the crisis team, make sure they are aware of the violent behaviour, tell them he almost killed someone (Im guessing thats why you said he could've been facing a manslaughter charge) tell them you are worried he's MH is declining and you're concerned for the safety of his ex girlfriend, your family, tell them you are frightened he is building up to another violent episode.

Unfortunately MH services is so under resourced you will have to push and push.