To be sad that this woman was embarrassed about being a TA?

[jennymanara]

We were out tonight at a social event where most couples seemed to do well paid or high status jobs such as Dr or in the corporate world. I was chatting to one couple and the issue about jobs came up and she very embarrassed said she was a TA. Her job is really important and much more important than some of the others there doing work in corporate firms. It is a crazy world we live in where someone doing a valuable job is embarrassed about it because that job is underpaid.

@Fibbke you don't like your sister much do you%? You're very eager to get confirmation she's lying or that she's some kind of subpar employee that only got hired because the school was desperate or something.

It’s not an important job...

The TAs in my school do so much more than most people would realise. Pastoral support for the most vulnerable children in our society. They are essential and take the place of social services support that has diminished so much over the last 10 years. They greet the children and have breakfast with them. Spend lunch with children who can’t face being with their peers. And so much more.

I’m a deputy at a huge primary school, but used to be in corporate banking. The TA job is SO much more important.

My husband still works in finance - when our children are ill, he stays home - ‘I’m just making rich people richer - your job matters - the rich can wait’

@Fibbke you don't like your sister much do you%? You're very eager to get confirmation she's lying or that she's some kind of subpar employee that only got hired because the school was desperate or something

I love my sister very much. But she has issues that make us all a bit worried that she might not be being completely truthful. When I read all the things on here saying that TAs had MsCs and were often as well qualified as teachers I was confused.

I was confused because having googled it she is clearly a cover supervisor, not a TA as she had told us. That's fine, she can call herself whatever she wants but at least I know she's not bullshitting thanks to this thread!

Surely when it comes down to it ALL jobs are important.
If no one worked retails the lawyers and doctors wouldn’t be able to go out and get their coffee or buy expensive clothes etc, if bin men didn’t collect the rubbish the world would be stinking, if nursery workers didn’t look after children the high flyers wouldn’t be able to go to work.

This ^

It is incredibly hard to get TA jobs and schools don’t just employ any school leaver. The reason is you need a shed load of experience and qualifications which many often don’t have. I know so many who have tried and failed to break into the TA sector.

Blimey, you need to meet some of the TAs at ds's school. It isn't a job that should be done by any school leaver but unfortunately it sometimes is.

TA is a very important job, but it is vastly underpaid and the TAs I know are over-exploited. I know several who have left as a result, even though it is one of the few jobs (the only?) that really works around children. Let's face it, that is why they are low paid - because there are loads of highly over-qualified women who need those kind of jobs, so employers can get away with it. Cleaners get paid more than TAs.

Jobs need to be recompensed adequately for the work that is performed, not on the basis that some people are so well-off that they can afford to work for "rewards" that involve no money, or those of us that can't will all be turned into slaves and have no way of earning, you know, an actual living from work.

I had to laugh at some of the comments about TA pay being adequate for the job. We recently got a raise to bring wages in line with NMW. I'm now earning a whopping 9.55 an hour. Adequate my ass!

I’m a lone parent, I’m also a TA and previously earned three times my current wage (posted upthread).

For me working in this role means that I actually have to time to work with the children. I’m providing support to a child who is suicidal, picked up on a child who is incredibly stressed due to home situation, helped others have that light bulb moment. I love it. I work in a mainstream high school.

I can no longer get this level of job satisfaction from my previous career because it was public sector and the budget changes in the last 10 years have made my job a stressful, target driven nightmare. In fact it made me unwell. I was away from home for about 10hrs a day, driving hundreds of miles a month, having crisis talks about waiting lists and delayed discharges weekly. I felt like every day was a battle.

I now have time to enjoy being a mum. I’m pretty skint but I’m much more satisfied with my life. And that is my choice to make. I can decide to pick a job that suits my needs and my family’s needs without being looked down at, sneered at or judged.

I think I’m hard wired to work in a field that involves people and helping them to achieve their goals. At some point I may decide to do my pgce, I’m definitely going to do another degree (distance learning).

She shouldn’t be embarrassed but I understand why she was. Society values success, caring roles and the people who need that support aren’t valued in our society. Shame on society not the people doing a really important role, helping your children to achieve their potential.

@YourSarcasmIsDripping the national living wage is £8.21 per hour.

@nicecuppaforme I'm not at the bottom of the pay scale. Hence the generous amount I get.

I am a TA in a primary school . I don't claim to be a teacher and sadly, my education did not progress beyond 'A' levels. I have been doing the job for a very long time - long enough to have worked with the children of some of my first pupils! Whilst I do not have a degree, I do have a huge number of qualifications relevant to my role up to, and including, HLTA status. Like others who have posted, I deal with a varied range of issues and situations daily - today I covered a maths class whilst the teacher was involved in an urgent meeting called at short notice, comforted a child whose parent died suddenly a fortnight ago and who now faces a life with grandparents who have had a very sporadic relationship with her previously, delivered a SALT intervention, raised a child protection issue for another child I work with and began to develop a programme of work for another TA to deliver for a child with EAL. Not a paintbrush in sight.
I would never claim to be a teacher, or to 'big up' what I do. But don't tell me that my job is not important or that I don't make a difference to the children I work with. In some schools, that may be the case, but our school regards our TAs as a strength of the school and this has been acknowledged in every OFSTED report since I've been at the school.

This thread makes me so very sad.

Do people really not know what TAs do every day?

I am a primary TA. I have a Masters degree and took an 80% pay cut to become a TA. For me it's a vocational decision, as much as a practical one so I can be around for my children morning and afternoon. The pay is appalling, and nowhere near what is deserved.

I am not a 'helper' as described upthread. Neither am I 'unskilled'. I am a phonics specialist, and delight in teaching little people to read. I have my own group who I teach daily. I support the teacher in Maths, read stories, sort out equipment, clean up sick and blood, hand out letters, change books, do first aid and playground duties, provide emotional support and perform targetted 1-1 interventions. I am a mind-reader and miracle-worker. I teach songs in assembly. I plan and deliver specialist RE teaching to the whole school. I am an expert at dealing with the SEN children I work with - I have got to know all of them and diffuse meltdowns before they even start. And if I don't, I literally roll with the punches.

My class could not function without a TA.

I am not 'only' a TA.

Just reading this thread shows why she was embarrassed. Nothing to do with the reality of the job, everything to do with other people's perceptions. I am massively overqualified for the role but the knowledge I bring with me means I do a better job. I earn 1/3rd of what I previously earnt but I find the work so much more personally fulfilling. I know I have made a real and significant difference to children's lives. That's worth more to me than adding £££ to the dividends of shareholders.

@UnderPompeii
You took issue with me saying “But it’s certainly a problem that so many women are unable to continue with their previous careers post children and have to change to a low skilled low paid job” You ask “Why is it a problem if that is a woman's choice?”

The answer is obviously its clearly not a woman’s choice or at least it’s not one freely made. If women could continue with their previous careers and have families, why would they be dropping out of the workplace in droves or taking up TA roles? Why is the same thing not happening to men?

We have career structures and workplaces designed for men and we need to do something to change it. We can’t all be TA.

And for all those who claim it’s so worthy and highly skilled but also much less stressful than your previous more skilled jobs - how does that work? It’s a wonderful reprieve from your previous job as a teacher, OT, etc but yet at the same time so super highly skilled that they are the essential glue for the school? Hmmmmmm

As we’ve all said it’s an important job and it’s a bit weird to be embarrassed by it. But it doesn’t require a high level of education or qualification and the hours are short.

Working with children/ adults with severe sn is a skilled role when done properly but some people don't see that because they don't value those people. Some people with not doing the role properly because the people they are working with can't speak out. Skill is far more than paper qualifications.

Get away with.

One of the first things I realised when training as a teacher was how amazing TAs are, and how much we expect of them for minimal pay. Sure, there are some crappy ones as there are in every job, but they tend not to last. The good ones do incredible work and deserve way more pay, training, support and recognition than they get. Before training I’m embarrassed to say I thought they just cleaned out paint pots and listened to children read. It’s so much more than that.

This dinner party woman could have been my DSis. She is a qualified teacher and works as a TA. She is constantly expected to plan and teach classes, cover for teaching colleagues' absences, run clubs... It drives me mad tbh. I feel she is conniving in her own exploitation (although she does enjoy the job and I expect she's good at it). I don't look down in what she does but the whole situation does make me a bit sad. From what she's said, the various Heads she's worked for both find her presence essential while treating her with contempt.

This thread has made me sad and angry. Are there really people who sneer and look down at a vital part of childrens education? I can honestly say that says more about you than anything else. You are shallow minded, money orientated and a twat!

I want to thank TA's and anyone in educating from the bottom of my heart. That includes the lunch supervisors, caretakers, office staff etc...... a school can not function without any of these component staff.

Are there really people who sneer and look down at a vital part of childrens education?

No, not on this thread.

Having said that, if my dd comes to it as a job in future then that's fine but I can't honestly say I would encourage her to choose it as a career. Likewise nursing. I want her to be able to support herself without a partner and it just doesn't pay enough. Not criticising the job, I expect it is fulfilling and rewarding for the right person, but the pay is shite.

I used to be a TA and would probably have reacted like the woman in the OP, if I'm honest. I found my job incredibly rewarding and was doing specialist 1-1 work, planning intervention groups for both myself and other TAs, compiling assessment data and writing reports, and various other things - as well as doing first aid and putting up displays and the things most people assume that a TA does. Most people I knew assumed it was all basically menial work. I actually had one family member tell people that I was a teacher instead, which was incredibly awkward when they later asked me about it. I knew the value of the job, but I knew that others didn't, which made me embarrassed about it at the time.

I started out in the job with no qualifications beyond GCSE, but lots of volunteering experience at the school that employed me. By the end I was level 4 qualified and had done specialist training for working with children with particular SEN. I left for various reasons, including the fact that I'd reached the point where I couldn't progress any further in the sector unless I wanted to become a teacher, which meant higher education. The low pay also bothered me in a way it hadn't when I was less qualified. I went to get my degree, and got on so well with it that I'm now a PhD student hoping for an academic career. I still miss being in the classroom, though.

It's time this job was re-framed and re-categorized. Since the TA was originally introduced the role has metamorphosed from something that quite likely started off as something more akin to the 'glorified pencil sharpener' to something that is much more specialized, but insufficiently defined.

The first thing that needs to happen is that no TA, whether HL or not, should be doing the job of a teacher, and they certainly shouldn't be teaching whole classes independently. People in that profession have QTS for a reason; otherwise what is the point of the degree/PGCE? TAs' roles should be complementary, not supplementary. Some are brilliant in dealing with children who are on the spectrum, and are appropriately qualified to do it. Some are great at running individual phonics groups with specific sets of children in the early years. They perform a huge variety of tasks: some menial, some highly specialist.

NB. SEN support is commendable and necessary, but as support. On the continent there are certain countries with more clearly-differentiated set of roles in schools. For example, unlike in the UK, teaching and classroom management/crowd control are distinct jobs, each performed by the people who are qualified to deal with those specific issues.

A TA's role shouldn't be 'all things to all people' or 'glorified pencil sharpener', or 'teaching on the cheap', and people have different ambitions and very different reasons for doing the job. Some want 'menial'. Others are dedicated to the often invaluable support they offer, sometimes to children in desperate need of it. If the TA label has outlived its usefulness it could probably help to redefine this roles, to ensure it's kept entirely separate from the teachers' roles, and to pay people a proper salary for fulfilling it.

Somehow, and for obvious reasons, I get the sense this won't be happening any time soon.

Maybe it’s ‘not an important job’ until your child needs one & then it becomes the most important job in the world. I have the upmost respect and am completely in awe of what the TA’s in my sons class do. They’re amazing. It would make me really sad if I learnt that any of them felt embarrassed about their job.

I agree with MarieIVanArkleStinks idea of TA roles being reframed and specified. In ds's school there seems to be so much moving around of TAs that they become all things to all people.

What fucks me off is that rather than getting the edication he (and many children) deserves, we get a series of TAs trying to navigate him (them) through a system which is at best 'just about good enough' and at worst 'complete shit'