To be sad that this woman was embarrassed about being a TA?

[jennymanara]

We were out tonight at a social event where most couples seemed to do well paid or high status jobs such as Dr or in the corporate world. I was chatting to one couple and the issue about jobs came up and she very embarrassed said she was a TA. Her job is really important and much more important than some of the others there doing work in corporate firms. It is a crazy world we live in where someone doing a valuable job is embarrassed about it because that job is underpaid.

It's the perception that the little woman isn't depending on her wage alone that enables employers to pay women less, plus of course the complete devaluation of work traditionally done by women.

Women are caught in a vicious cycle.

Lesbians, being women, are affected by the pay gap.

mathanxiety - society has to devalue the work traditionally done by women. Capitalism doesn't work very well otherwise. Caring, nurturing and domestic work have to be as close to free as possible in order to free others up to do a bit of competing and profiteering. If childcare is too expensive, people can't go out to work doing something else, so you aren't allowed or even able to earn big salaries from doing it. The less essential to life something is, the easier it is to make huge profits from it.

Nail on the head there.

It's the perception that the little woman isn't depending on her wage alone that enables employers to pay women less, plus of course the complete devaluation of work traditionally done by women.

Yep. One of my pre requisites before starting a family was to have achieved a salary that would enable me to support myself and a child on our own if necessary. You hope it never comes to that but you can never fully guarantee someone you procreate will stick by your side for the next couple of decades, look at the number of people blindsided by affairs and being left out of the blue etc.

No way was I going to make myself vulnerable by bringing a child into the world I couldn’t support alone if things went pear shaped.

Took me until 31 mind you to have reached an income I feel would be sufficient, but it was well worth the wait for the peace of mind knowing I can afford to go it alone if necessary. You then have options.

Very wise - I am very thankful that my DCs all seem to be focusing on their careers still. Oldest now 29 and with a very nice BF but I think she could wait another few years before taking the next step. One of her best friends is getting married next year after she finishes her surgical specialisation.

A labour market presentation I saw recently suggested that lesbians are affected positively by the pay gap. It seems to be more of a motherhood penalty these days than a gender pay gap (I don't think the analysis had broken down as far as lesbian mums). It's funny how these threads always start with emotional stuff (and I can understand why people feel so positively about TAs who've supported their children, of course I do) and end up with unpleasant realities of the labour market. It's almost enough to make me reconsider Marxism sometimes...

Marxism wouldn't work any better if people's mentalities remained the same. Women's traditional roles are undervalued because it is exceptionally seldom the case that those most interested in power and prestige have high levels of nurturing or caring skills. If you mistake competitive aggression and external ambition for superiority and a justification for abuse of those who do not think or act like you, then you will tend to subjugate those inclined to care and nurture, rather than encourage their different and useful attributes - because you can and because you think they deserve it for being weak and stupid. If you are crap at nurturing, you really don't know how to inspire and protect that characteristic in others. You force everyone to mirror your own aggressive self-centredness in order to protect themselves from you.

Plenty of women who have well paid jobs are very nurturing and caring.

Fwiw two of the least nurturing people i ever met were primary school TAs.

When it comes to schools they can't really do much as the budgets are what they are. Even when they want to pay more, they can't. Schools around us are letting a lot of TA's go or just managing with volunteers and staff that's already there if they leave themselves.

As a PP said, society and the government want quality and excellent results,while paying peanuts.

Absolutely JennyManara.
I'm just making the point that it isn't exclusive to just teaching assistants. There are many lower paid jobs that women do that they wouldn't be able to do if they didnt have a higher earning partner. By that I mean, they wouldn't have the nice house, the holidays, own flat/house if single etc. Even women without kids (Example I gave on the other page).

It isn't easy out there and everyone will have a difference of opinion. I highly value care workers and those that work with children. It's a job which requires a lot of empathy, patience and kindness. I have a lot of respect for those who do it.

Fibbke you seem to have a vendetta towards TAs which is gettting a bit silly. Wondering if it stems from jealousy which I can understand as it's a fantastic job to have.

Having a well paid job is not the same thing as seeking power, influence and prestige. Seeking a TA's job solely because the hours suit you is not remotely the same thing as being nurturing, Fibbke. Focusing on financial independence above all else is a feature of a society which values aggressive competition over other useful characteristics. It is a useful characteristic in some circumstances, not the dominant or sole feature of a genuinely successful society.

And, of course, some people only show the slightest inclination towards caring or nurturing when it comes to their own offspring. They do not make good TAs.

You'd think it would be a budgetary issue, yes. It would be convenient to think so. Meanwhile the guy that is overall head of the Harris Academies is on more than the PM...

I didn't mean I personally approved of Marxism, but that concepts like false consciousness and roles/pay that seem 'just how they are' being built on an exploitative structure that yes, does not ascribe a value to caring and nurturing work, suddenly seemed useful in unpicking why traditionally female roles are low paid as well as being low status (someone mentioned binmen upthread I think - they may not be of high status but the pay is quite good for the hours).

Wondering if it stems from jealousy which I can understand as it's a fantastic job to have.

Jealous of a TA? Get real.