Yes another CF parking/fence thread!

[ImABeanBanana]

I live in a GF flat, I have an upstairs neighbour and there's the same set up next door with the rest being houses. There's a piece of land that belongs to say 2a, 2b, 3a and 3b. The neighbours to the right (let's say they're 1) and one but the next on the left (let's say they're 4) have form for not only using the land as an access via a path that runs along behind the land and coming in (there's no fence because it's used by all at 2 & 3 as parking) but also parking there. And even dumping cars there. Both properties have gates in to access our land when they legally don't have a right according to the deeds and both have their own garages and own fenced off gardens.

We have a young child, haven't lived here long and don't want the hassle of getting into it but have expressed displeasure at the fact that there are cars in the way when I come home. Last time DH knocked on 1 they told him that the car parked wasn't anything to do with them when a week or so later it moved over nearer to their fence and was working on it but all has been quiet with no new cars appearing until yesterday.

Suddenly, DH comes home today and he's furious, the neighbours at 1 are putting in a sliding fence perhaps to use the land as access to get cars in, perhaps to just open up their garden as sees fit but we don't know. They have done it all in a days work (it now appears over the weekend they had been concreting to allow the posts to go in for it) and it's nearly done.

Whilst we say the hello, how are you and other pleasantries, we think there is potential for it to get nasty. DH is worked up and moaning about how rude it is whilst not wanting to talk to them about it. I agree with DH that it's bloody rude but I'm not combusting yet - I guess I'm holding my breath for what they're up to next!

AIBU in thinking neighbours are CFs of the highest order?

YABU not to include a diagram!

Sorry but this needs a diagram I can't make head nor tail of it.

I'm struggling to understand the layout. Are you 2a or 2b?

You need to check their deeds as well as yours and your neighbours on line . If they dont have a right of access then they can't have a gate onto your land then you need to write to them and get a solicitor to write. But check first.

How long have the gates been there?

Is it possible to put up a fence with a locked gate so the neighbours can’t gain access? I’d also consider a solicitors letter clarifying that they have no right of access. Because if you keep letting them access your land eventually they’ll have rights.

Bollards.

What do the deeds say, OP? Are you positive that the neighbours at 1 & 4 don't have a right to cross that bit of land?

And how do the other residents of 2 & 3 feel?

If they don't have access rights, and the neighbours in 2 & 3 agree, I'd get together and put up a solid fence, and drop the CF neighbours a polite note (coming from you all) pointing out there is no right of way over the land in question and that you are collectively putting up a fence to prevent it.

I'd also add that you will be taking steps to dispose of vehicles dumped on the land that you all own.

Bollards are cheap in Lidl this week, I gather. That or a solicitor letter.

Drawing a plan.

2 & 3 say they don't car as only 1 other person drives, they have one car and chuck it where they want to park but haven't lived here long. If all 4 of us had cars or wanted more than 1 each which we should reasonably be able to do, we wouldn't be able to. However, the other properties are rented. All freeholders feel they are CFs and think it's devaluing the property by letting it go on.

Deeds for here say they are CFs.

I'm doing a plan now to show you

Here it is, although unfortunately it was rushed then scribbled on by small child.

I can't see the pic - This happens sometimes on the desktop version. Is someone able to screenshot please? :)

Do the four flats own the land? If so put a fence up where they're installing the sliding fence and put a fence in front of the gate on the other side. Then put no trespassing signs at the top entrance.

If the land def belongs to you and the 3 flats can you not call to have them towed for trespassing?

Why don't you extend your strips of garden to further down the land, fence them off with gates at the end of each and put the car parking in line with the garages. That way you can all park, block their access and have bigger gardens.

So you have a courtyard type thing? Do you want to use it for anything? Parking? Could you fence off a quarter of it as yours and put out like table chairs garden stuff, make a clear play area that would be safe. Put flower pots etc around

Get a legal document sent to both CFs and organise fencing. That's not right and if they have this magical access they're making for themselves for long enough, then I think it becomes harder to get rid of them.

I am
Lost...

For how long have they been using your land in this way?

Who owns all the land in between the houses 1 and 4?

Is it a shared piece of land by everyone at 2 and 3 or does each flat own a bit of it?

Does anyone else have to have legal access?

I was going to ask the same as Relais, how long have they used the land like this? If it’s been going on for years then they may now have rights to it - my FIL lost a court case arguing that land was his per the deeds but his neighbour has used and maintained it for long enough for the court to side with his neighbour.

If it’s recent then I’d speak to the others at 2 and 3 about extending gardens and using the top bit for your own parking. Then 1 and 4 would have no option to park there.

On the next road someone put a door in their side fence leading off a drive which was not theirs. Years later it's still there as no one did anything soon enough. Don't let them do this. It's not their land but will become theirs by default if no one stands up for what is right.

It looks easy enough to put a fence with a locked gate between the garages? I’d fence across their new gates too!

You need to nip this in the bud immediately.

All 4 flats own the land I'm between clearly split 4 ways as per the deeds. Neighbour does not maintain it at all, it's gone to shit no end by the amount of vehicles that are driven in and out. Would it not make a difference that neighbour has their own garage and we have none? We have zero privacy! I don't have a fence around my own garden although I could but that's technically partly my space. No idea how long it's been going on but I think they've had the property in the family for decades?

The thing is, the other owners don't live here so they don't see it going on to nip it in the bud.

If we put a fence with a locked gate, we'd need to come out of the car at night, unlock it and then drive in, locking it again.

@blaaake it's too late, it's in already and I hate the way they were so fucking sly about it. I think any good neighbour would run it past the other even if land is split 4 ways.