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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Yes another CF parking/fence thread!

58 replies

ImABeanBanana · 02/07/2019 19:03

I live in a GF flat, I have an upstairs neighbour and there's the same set up next door with the rest being houses. There's a piece of land that belongs to say 2a, 2b, 3a and 3b. The neighbours to the right (let's say they're 1) and one but the next on the left (let's say they're 4) have form for not only using the land as an access via a path that runs along behind the land and coming in (there's no fence because it's used by all at 2 & 3 as parking) but also parking there. And even dumping cars there. Both properties have gates in to access our land when they legally don't have a right according to the deeds and both have their own garages and own fenced off gardens.

We have a young child, haven't lived here long and don't want the hassle of getting into it but have expressed displeasure at the fact that there are cars in the way when I come home. Last time DH knocked on 1 they told him that the car parked wasn't anything to do with them when a week or so later it moved over nearer to their fence and was working on it but all has been quiet with no new cars appearing until yesterday.

Suddenly, DH comes home today and he's furious, the neighbours at 1 are putting in a sliding fence perhaps to use the land as access to get cars in, perhaps to just open up their garden as sees fit but we don't know. They have done it all in a days work (it now appears over the weekend they had been concreting to allow the posts to go in for it) and it's nearly done.

Whilst we say the hello, how are you and other pleasantries, we think there is potential for it to get nasty. DH is worked up and moaning about how rude it is whilst not wanting to talk to them about it. I agree with DH that it's bloody rude but I'm not combusting yet - I guess I'm holding my breath for what they're up to next!

AIBU in thinking neighbours are CFs of the highest order?

OP posts:
combatbarbie · 02/07/2019 21:21

What bit is your bit of land? I would fence my area off entirely..... Electronic gate sensor???

RebootYourEngine · 02/07/2019 22:02

So they park on your land, am I right?

ragged · 02/07/2019 22:06

That is a shit diagram. Honestly you could win awards for worst of the year.
Nobody should be parking cars on land where they aren't allowed to park.

Original poster
ImABeanBanana · 02/07/2019 22:14

It is a shit diagram, I had a young child in tow but in essence, yes they are parking on the land all 4 flats own and have put in a sliding fence/gate to continue using the land for access when they have a garage with a garage door that goes directly from the access road into their garage and into their garden. There's simply no need to use our land apart from parking.

OP posts:
PanamaPattie · 02/07/2019 22:18

I don't understand - did you create this thread to just have a moan or do you want help?

cabingirl · 02/07/2019 23:15

But which bit of the land belongs to which flat? Do you all have a long thin piece going from the house to the access point or is it divided into four squares?

Original poster
ImABeanBanana · 02/07/2019 23:56

Both, @PanamaPattie.

@cabingirl Does that make a difference? (Just wondering not being goady)

OP posts:
LoveMyNewHome · 03/07/2019 00:55

I don't understand the diagram or issue at all. Can you do a clearer diagram & explain things more clearly please OP?

S1naidSucks · 03/07/2019 01:07

Sorry OP, but you need to redraw and maybe colour in the land that belongs to each house. I’m totally confused. If they’re putting in a removable fence panel in order to use your land, then put in two posts directly beside it with a permanent panel.

AnnieOH1 · 03/07/2019 01:30

You ideally need to pull copies of the Title Plans and registers from Land Registry for every property (so 1 and 4, and all the collective flats). It may be that your deeds are silent to their right of access but that doesn't mean they don't have a right of access.

You also need to check the original planning permissions assuming this isn't that old a development (last maybe 50/60 years ish).

Where you may struggle is if this is a much older street as the neighbours may have gained access by custom. There may even be some long forgotten document that allows them access granted by a previous owner of your flats.

Are all the properties leasehold? Who owns the leases? You'll need a copy of the freehold title too from Land Registry.

Who is responsible for the upkeep of the parking area? Do you pay into a sinking fund or is it just ignored by everyone?

The deeds will show you how the parking area is split. It maybe owned by all 4 flats jointly or it may be that it has been parcelled into 4 separate areas where you are each responsible for one area.

Do you have legal cover? Do you own the property? Do you have a mortgage? (Relevant in the event of a dispute)

BreakfastAtSquiffanys · 03/07/2019 01:51

If it's your (shared) land then just put something totally on your side that blocks their sliding gate - a planter, 2 courses of bricks, an old sofa....

BreakfastAtSquiffanys · 03/07/2019 01:51

Or just park your car across it.

BadLad · 03/07/2019 02:01

*Sorry OP, but you need to redraw and maybe colour in the land that belongs to each house.

And, if possible, could you draw it on a piece of a paper, rather than a leaf.

BlackCatSleeping · 03/07/2019 02:24

So, you definitely own all of the land that runs between the two neighbors gardens, not just the bit at the bottom where your gardens and cars are?

It seems that the neighbors think this land is unused and they have been using it. I suspect the only way to stop them using it, is to somehow change it so they can see that it is being used, such as a fence or barricade. Or you need to make life difficult for them by challenging them parking there. It's hard because the land is split four-ways, but not impossible.

You live there though. What are your thoughts on how to get them to stop? You must have some ideas.

TheSerenDipitY · 03/07/2019 04:08

all park your cars in front of his new sliding door, and eventually concrete in two posts and fence over his sliding door, so it opens on either a car blocking the way or a new fence
and tell him he is trespassing, and perhaps have a lawyer send a letter saying he is trespassing and to back the fuck off, and then you can even go and have him served with a trespass notice saying he is to stay off your combined land at all times, no exceptions

BeanBag7 · 03/07/2019 06:50

I have no idea from the diagram (you probably don't need to include all the other houses on the street). However, is the land divided on the deeds (a square each) or is the whole area shared?
If it's divided then I would fence off my area. As far as I can see that's the only way to go ahead because even if you ask them to move the car then it'll just be another thing soon.

If the whole area is shared I don't really know what you can do, maybe park your car in "their" space when they aren't there; if it's a shared area you have a right to use it as they do.

TheCrowFromBelow · 03/07/2019 07:01

I can see your plan. 1 doesn’t own the land at all but that doesn’t mean there are no rights of way. If they have right to access, it doesn’t mean they can park but none of us can answer this for you really.
do you own or rent?

LakieLady · 03/07/2019 07:45

What to do the other flat owners think? If they're in agreement, I'd go down the fencing off route, and have a locked gate. I don't think having to unlock a gate is a huge deal to prevent someone else being able to establish access rights across your land, which is what will happen if this goes unchecked.

And you could just lock it every now and again, ideally when his car is illegally parked on your land (although this may be illegal, it would be amusing).

Failing that, fence off your own bit of garden, and park your car across his new gate! And get some "private property - no unauthorised access" signs made and put up.

And have you actually spoken to him about it, and explained that he's trespassing? He may genuinely not realise

Original poster
ImABeanBanana · 03/07/2019 10:41

I haven't spoken to him about it but DH will not either. I have a family member who used to work in property law (more sales and title plans than land squabbles) and fortunately they have a stake in the land and property too. I have check both our plans and the neighbour's this morning and there is no right of access, it's very clear. In fact, they have cut into a fence that is legally owned by us freeholders here!

What can I do about this?

OP posts:
BreakfastAtSquiffanys · 03/07/2019 11:31

Well if you don't voice your objections, of course the CFN will assume that you have no problem with where he parks and his new gate

BBBear · 03/07/2019 11:32

In the short term put a bollard or small fence up on your land next to the new gate so they can’t drive a vehicle through it.

Then seek legal advice to make them replace the fence as it was (assuming it is your fence, not their fence.)

BlackCatSleeping · 03/07/2019 11:35

I think you need to talk to them about the damage to the fence as a starting point.

Nanny0gg · 03/07/2019 11:36

You speak to a solicitor.

chickhonhoneybabe · 03/07/2019 11:50

Show the deeds to your CFN and ask them to rectify the damage. If no luck, get a solicitors letter.

Also park your car so they can’t get in via the fence.

chickhonhoneybabe · 03/07/2019 11:51

Keeping quiet will make them think they’ve got away with it, so you either need to talk them or send a solicitor letter.