To ask what you think of the death penalty? (Don’t open if you don’t like talking about death and crime)

[Chancewouldbeafinethlng]

I listened to Adam Buxtons newest podcast episode and found it very interesting.
I’m not sure how I feel about it. On the one hand there are some criminals who I would not piss on if they were on fire, I think they really deserve to die. But then there is always going to be a person who’s job it is to kill that person.
Also there is the risk that someone has been falsely accused and maybe not had a fair trial. How would you ever know?

The episode touched on the method used currently for the death penalty. The woman who was talking was saying how unreliable it is and is basically torture if it doesn’t work. What other methods could be used though?

Sorry I know it’s a very morbid subject but I would be interested in hearing other people’s opinions.

If we can euthanise people in a humane way (assisted suicide) and also euthanise animals in a relatively painless way to end suffering why is it barbaric to kill death row inmates in the same way?

Surely if it’s painful/barbaric to one it’s painful to all regardless of circumstances?

Because we aren't ending their suffering by killing a convicted murderer? So not the same as assisted suicide at all.
Would only be the same if the murderer asked to be killed.

You tend to find criminals reoffend...if we made prisons less appealing then it might put them off a bit?

Or maybe we could look at the reasons behind offending and reoffending such as deprivation, lack of the early interventions that have been proven to improve social outcomes, deficits in education, lack of job and training opportunities, drug and alcohol misuse, financial hardship, lack of mental health support, and so on and so forth.

But yeah, sure, they're all reoffending to get their hands on a twenty year old PS2 and a copy of FIFA 2000.

bobstersmum if you execute paedophiles, what do you do to paedophiles who murder? If the punishment is as bad for one as the other, it would encourage them to kill their victims.

An eye for an eye.

Makes the whole world blind.

Of course the death penalty isn’t a deterrent

Offenders s don’t think oh I better stop just in case I get caught the desire to do what they do is far too powerful

It may make make some more careful in their choices when and who they commit a crime against

And as for prison being easy/not so bad yes some do come out thinking that way often due to MH reasons and also humans can become institutionalized very very quickly to move on from that is very challenging for many

The death penalty is primitive and barbaric
I do not want to live in a society that entertains things which are primitive and barbaric

I saw a doc years ago about how to humanly kill prisoners and the answer was to slowly reduce oxygen.

He took this to the Texan prison head guy or politician or something and the guy said - but we want them to suffer.

I would have said I was definitely against it. But recently the alesha mcphail case made me wish that bastard would get what he deserved. It's the first time I've understood why people support the death penalty.

there are not any miscarriages of justice now it’s always proved with DNA in the USA at least

Weren't the FBI recently caught for forging evidence

I don't support the death penalty. Depriving a person of their liberty is enough.

However which method would be my choice if I happened to find myself on Death Row? From what I've seen, I understand that death by firing squad is very quick. The prisoner is thoroughly restrained, there are very obvious targets set up for the gunmen to fire at so no chance of missing plus the gunmen are trained marksmen. Most of the guns are firing blanks and none of the shooters know which gun has the live round.

I think the death sentence would be for killers who are beyond redemption, the Yorkshire Ripper Peter Sutcliffe, Ian Huntley, child murderers. I also agree with the death sentence for terrorists who get caught in this country. I also think sentencing for any violent crime should be longer, a mandatory 15 years for carrying a knife would be a start.

I absolutely do not support the death penalty. It's barbaric, inhumane and one miscarriage of justice is one too many. State sponsored murder has no place in a civilised progressive society. Rather we should look at the problems that contribute to people carrying out murders in the first place and try and solve them.

I'm under no illusion that not all murderers have had some bad start in life/social deprivation/mental health problem and they are likely to be some who are just plain evil. These, like Brady, Hindley, and latterly, Huntley should stay in prison for their entire lives. Being locked up for 23 hours a day, with no freedom to do what you want, when you want, is far more of a punishment than death, which I view as the easy way out.

@Mayday19
I wasn’t talking about the ethics of the whole thing.

I was talking about people saying it’s physically painful to euthanise murderers etc therefore it is wrong.

But if it is physically painful for them then is it not also physically painful for those using assisted suicide or to animals being ‘humanely’ euthanised which is completely socially acceptable. How can you say one is unethical due to pain but allow the latter.

I don’t really care if it’s painful to be fair, doubt they gave much of a shit about the pain they have caused victims.

I do think there is a big problem with prisons and the way we treat prisoners, but not because they are too soft.

Looking at countries where the prisons are 25 to a stinking cell, the crime rate is still high. USA are much harsher, the crime rate is still high. Prison does not work.

You have three main types of prisoner, psychos, sexual deviants and then people that are just products of their environments.

The first two can't he rehabilitaed. But most prisoners are part of a cycle of crime and abuse and neglect and mental health issues and we need to try and brake the cycle. Rehabilitation not punishment.

The psychos and the sexual deviants, I'm still conflicted on what to do with them. Maybe put them on some sort of work island. They could sort recycling.

We need to work on why so many young people especially boys/men feel they need to carry a knife before handing out heavy sentences

That’s what really needs to change giving them a longer sentence without other changes happening in our society will not change the levels of knife crime we shall just have more young men wasting their life in prison

The psychos

Do you mean psychopaths or those who have committed terrible crimes while they have been suffering from psychosis

psychopaths

We need to work on why so many young people especially boys/men feel they need to carry a knife before handing out heavy sentences

Read Behaviour by Robert Sapolsky.
But basically its largely caused by social policy. Certain genes related to impulsivity and emotional control are turned on by childhood adversity. Compound that with feeling voiceless and not represented (people vote less ironically), poverty in a time of plenty (much worse than bring poor when everyone else is), reduction of social support. This makes people more tribal, honour crimes rise..gangs rise..but in a nutshell austerity has massive long term implications.

(To completely derail the thread, its all been an experiment to see how far you can reduce the state without breaking the country. But they didnt stop before they broke the country).

it is complex and a lot of work needs to be done

What I was meaning just handing out longer sentences won’t change anything apart from more young men in prison

Absolutely agree and will probably make things worse unless there is a culture of therapeutic rehabilitation. In my distant memory there was one prison that was run as a therapeutic community but places were like hen's teeth.

I'm generally on the left of most discussions. With crime it's where my "right" side really shows, but even with that 'confession' I don't think the death penalty should be brought back.

Criminals should be made to suffer first and rehabilitate second

We need to get better at ensuring the right person is convicted

There should be a massive fund set up to pay reparations to any miscarriages of justice

Somehow, the punishment for crime has to suit the crime but solving that is a difficult task.

Civilised countries do not use the death penalty.
Look at the countries who do have it
Do you envy their citizens? Do they live in peaceful, non-violent countries?
Contempt for human life breeds contempt for human life.
There is no humane way to do inhumane things. YABU if you think that there are.

I don't think that 'life' is to be preserved at all cost. I don't think that any one individual life is very important in the scheme of things.
That said I also don't think that any person should have the power of life over another, whether that be a judge who gives the death penalty or the executioner who performs the deed.
I believe that should someone be convicted of a crime which would in some circumstances elicit the death penalty, they should be given access to a suicide pill/potion.
That is - voluntary euthanasia for life prisoners. They always have the choice. No other individual takes responsibility.

To me this isn't about 'punishment' but consequences. AND if they choose suicide over life or long term imprisonment I am fine with that.

(Also strongly favour voluntary euthanasia for everyone)

I see no point in the death penalty. I think it's embarrassing and shameful that an apparently advanced and civilized society can't think of a better way to deal with convicted criminals. It makes us all look bad and I just don't see what good it does?

And the argument about "why pay for prisoners to sit around in prison spending taxpayer's money" is silly as well - people are on death row for a bloody long time. You don't get convicted of murder and then get the chair a week later, there is usually a 15-25yr gap in between so that you have time to appeal. Then add on all the medical and legal costs of actually killing someone. It's not a money saving option.