To ask what you think of the death penalty? (Don’t open if you don’t like talking about death and crime)

[Chancewouldbeafinethlng]

I listened to Adam Buxtons newest podcast episode and found it very interesting.
I’m not sure how I feel about it. On the one hand there are some criminals who I would not piss on if they were on fire, I think they really deserve to die. But then there is always going to be a person who’s job it is to kill that person.
Also there is the risk that someone has been falsely accused and maybe not had a fair trial. How would you ever know?

The episode touched on the method used currently for the death penalty. The woman who was talking was saying how unreliable it is and is basically torture if it doesn’t work. What other methods could be used though?

Sorry I know it’s a very morbid subject but I would be interested in hearing other people’s opinions.

I think punishment for crime in this country is too gentle, but I also don't want the death penalty. Build more prisons? They'd never let us vote on it, too much risk we'd vote it in!

@Gth1234 "How on earth does this get conflated with Brexit?" The discussion came out of a couple of branch thoughts and debate about the UK's death penalty status and the EU and ECHR. ProfessorSlocombe made an informative post.

Your view seems to be build more prisons, just lock more people up or execute them and whitewash over society's problems, rather than spend those resources preventing crime in the first place?
Too liberal for you?

@faelavie

Not at all. Do both.

Actually be "tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime." Unlike the UK today.

There's a world of difference between judicial punishment, and military action. They're even spelled differently for the dim.

I have no issue if a soldier - or policeman - has to take direct violent action (presumably firing a gun) in order to preserve the lives of innocent civilians. But even then, it's a high bar. You can't just go around shooting people because you think they might commit a crime (unless you are in the US where it's pretty much compulsory in some states). But that's not a judicial sentence. Not does it imply an exemption from either the criminal law of the land, or the military rules of engagement.

The real problem in the UK at the moment, is that the criminal justice system has been morphed into a "service" with targets and budgets and contracts and an unhealthy relationship between the private companies that get paid to look after criminals, and the politicians that administer a justice system which delivers the criminals needed to make a profit.

Luckily for some, there's no danger of common sense ever breaking out, so it looks set to continue. Otherwise (as I suggested before) we might want to consider charging prisons for reoffenders. After all, if you put your washing machine in for repair, and it finds itself back in the repair shop six months later, you don't pay the engineer a second fee again do you ? I would have though an argument based on finances might have appealed to some ....

I am opposed to the death penalty as a moral principle because I don’t believe a government should be authorised to murder its citizens. But even without it being a moral law, in my opinion there is way too much racial and socio-economic bias in the justice system to make the death penalty a viable option.

There are some criminals whose crimes are so horrific that I don't believe that prison is enough for them

Not saying that the death penalty should be brought back or not but in some cases yes defintely

You can't just do it in some cases.

Not saying that the death penalty should be brought back or not but in some cases yes defintely

eh? It's not 100% clear to me what you are saying. At all.

Not saying that the death penalty should be brought back or not but in some cases yes definitely

Ah, so only the cases where they are really guilty ? Makes sense, I guess.

I work in what was an old Victorian prison ( obvs it's still a prison )
Hangings used to take place there. The youngest person hung in the gaol (as they were called ) was a boy aged 9. His crime was he stole a pig, his father had put him over a wall to do so.
Personally I would find it hard to work in a prison if deaths were still happening . I find it very sad when suicides are reported.
As a side note ,the prison I work in does have a vulnerable prisoner wing ( mostly sex offenders ) but they are not all 'Beasts ' as suggested on here.
A VP wing is just that, a wing that houses prisoners who could be vulnerable on another wing. For example you are a drug user who owes money to a drug seller who is also in prison . You are a gang member on a certain gang and there are prisoners who are from a rival gang . You are a celebrity who would be hassled/ beat up for the glory . Or you are an ex policeman who cannot go on a wing as you would be recognised.

I think that euthansia should be legalised. I think that it should be available to criminals on whole life sentences.

I work in what was an old Victorian prison ( obvs it's still a prison ) Hangings used to take place there. The youngest person hung in the gaol (as they were called ) was a boy aged 9. His crime was he stole a pig, his father had put him over a wall to do so.

Of course London Underground ran Gallows Specials on the Metropolitan Line in 1868 for the last public hanging.

Maybe we should bring back public hanging. It would certainly boost the economy with a trade in souvenirs and special package deals for the best views. Also the Department of Digital, Culture, Media and Sport could licence official merchandise and cover the costs of providing an execution service that way ? I'm sure the TV rights would make it a self-sustaining operation as long as we can keep the gallows going. There's probably a TV franchise in pairing up two convicts for a double drop - viewers could have a weekly vote with a genuine elimination round. Just add "The Tyburn Jig" to "Strictly Come Dancing". There's also the business opportunity to sell death masks and pieces of the noose.

In fact, the more I start giving it some serious thought, the fewer downsides I can see in bringing back the death penalty 21st Century Style.

I wonder how it might play out on Kickstarter ?

for profit prisons are just counterproductive, to them prisoners are cash cows, the more prisoners, the longer the sentences, the more frequent the re-offenses the better it is for the prison and all it's shareholders.
They will lobby in their own financial interests and they more wealthy they become the greater their power to influence the criminal justice system in their favour.

For profit prisons want high rates of crime and imprisonment

In fact, the more I start giving it some serious thought, the fewer downsides I can see in bringing back the death penalty 21st Century Style
I think public torture would be more of a money spinner, after all you can only execute a person once, torture provides repeat entertainment

I think public torture would be more of a money spinner, after all you can only execute a person once, torture provides repeat entertainment

Now you're talking ! I knew the Great British Public wouldn't let me down.

Some sort of mashup maybe ? You invite contestants onto a Dragons Den/Apprentice format show. They submit their ideas for the most excruciating torture they can think of, and we wheel out some useless piece of human garbage to see how well it works. The public can vote based on pain, aestheticism, and ability to repeat/prolong ... with the best judged going through to the next week. There would obviously need to be a human interest angle, so as the convict is paying their debt to society, we could have a celebrity host interviewing the victims of crime about how much better they feel with each scream.

Anyone have any ideas for a title ?

Anyone have any ideas for a title ?

The All New Jeremy Kyle show?

for profit prisons are just counterproductive,

I agree, they are counterproductive but unfortunately as you mention, they disproportionately benefit their wealthy investors and senior management.

I have two contradicting opinions -

1. If it is wrong to kill someone, it is wrong for the state to do it as punishment, and hypocritical.

2. Some people deserve tortue and death

So, while I would very much love to see some people murdered, I can't say I would support the death penalty.

I would, however, be hoping that say the man who abused my mum got raped and killed if he went to prison, by an innmate who doesn't mind serving more time.

Anyone have any ideas for a title ?

Frequent Flayer?
Supply Pain?
British Pain-Saw Massacre?
Agony Fair
New World Torture
Spill the Screams...
The Interpretation of Screams...

Quite fun actually

Anyone have any ideas for a title
I've run out of steam, it's just too horrifying, that people dont understand the implications of allowing the desire for retribution to influence the criminal justice system

here's a link to the podcast if anyone wants to listen
podcasts.google.com/?feed=aHR0cHM6Ly9yc3MuYWNhc3QuY29tL2FkYW1idXh0b24&episode=Mjg4OWVkYzEtYjNiZC00YzY1LWFlMjUtNDdmYzY4ZGM5ZWY4&at=1562085166664

THE ADAM BUXTON PODCAST
EP.98 - MAYA FOA
4 days ago · 72 min · (97.8MB)
Adam talks with Maya Foa, the director of Human rights charity Reprieve, about the questionable efficacy of the death penalty, torture, Jack Bauer, drone strikes, why Obama should have watched 'Dave' starring Kevin Kline, and whether I could get out of Guantanamo.
Reprieve is a nonprofit organisation of international lawyers and investigators whose stated goal is to "fight for the victims of extreme human rights abuses with legal action and public education".

In some cases I meant people like murderers and sex offenders who show absolutely no remorse for any of their horrible crimes

Sorry didn't explain myself very well

Thecatsthecats

I agree with your euthanasia suggestiom

Not once did I wish the perpetrator dead, punished for certain and the words "throw away the fucking key" may have been used, but never dead.

You're a much bigger person than me. I have been fantasizing about that exact thing since my childhood.

Some people deserve torture
no, I dont think we ever should allow torture, even if someone 'deserves' it

A difficult thing to answer - on one hand look at the Moors murderers, Fred West etc - what on earth is the point of taxpayers' money being used to house them for the rest of their lives? If prison were harder, with mandatory manual labour, basic food rations, no tvs, no drugs etc then maybe that would be sufficient punishment. But prisons are not like that.